Podcast #10 Vacuum Safety: Engineering Insights, Essential Equipment Features, and Best Practices with Dave Krendl

Discover the secrets of powerful vacuum technology with industry veteran Dave Krendl. With over 40 years of experience, Dave sheds light on the evolution of vacuums, revealing how advancements have enabled these machines to tackle even the hottest climates. Our conversation uncovers essential safety features like vac savers and safety output elbows, designed to protect both operators and environments from the incredible force these machines can exert. Learn how these innovations are transforming insulation removal and other applications, ensuring safety and efficiency in both residential and commercial settings.

Dave takes us on a fascinating journey through the engineering marvels behind high-speed vacuums, sharing compelling stories that highlight the need for rigorous safety measures. From rat bones being shot through the air to the importance of donning face shields and hearing protection, we delve into the meticulous engineering and materials, such as AR-500 steel, that make these machines safe and durable. With safety mechanisms like limit switches and safety flappers, Dave underscores the critical importance of designing vacuums that balance immense power with reliable safety.

We then shift focus to practical tips for operating large vacuum equipment safely and efficiently. Dave offers anecdotes and insights into best practices, such as maintaining a safe distance, ensuring proper ventilation, and wearing appropriate personal protective equipment. The episode also touches on the critical role of maintenance, emphasizing the need for regular equipment checks and the proper handling of collection bags. Whether you're dealing with insulation, restoration after natural disasters, or other specialized tasks, these insights provide a valuable guide to maximizing both the safety and efficiency of vacuum equipment.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Vacuum Safety Equipment Design and Discussion
• 7:36 Vacuum Safety Measures Discussion
• 16:54 Proper Vacuum Operation and Safety
• 20:32 Vacuum Safety and Efficiency Tips
• 33:32 Vacuum Equipment Safety and Maintenance
• 40:02 Vacuum Safety Operating Procedures

Transcript

Dan: 0:30

uh, so dave, I guess jumping right into it. If you could go ahead and introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about what you're doing, how you got started in all of this, and uh, yeah, take it away okay, uh, thanks for the invite and I'm glad to be able to help uh improve some safety out there with these vacuums we're talking about today.

Dave Krendl: 0:51

But yes, my name is is Dave Krendl. I've been in the industry a little over 40 years, kind of dating myself there a little bit. I spent 10 years as an industrial arts teacher in a high school in Columbus, ohio, before I came back in my father's business, the Crandall Machine Company, and I ran the company and designed their equipment for about 18 years. And I ran the company and designed their equipment for about 18 years before I kind of went out on my own back in 2002. So we've been cool machines, we've been at it for about a little over 20 years now and one of our fortes is we have several thousand machines in the field. We probably got several thousand vacuums out there in the field right now, and so my forte has been the kind of the design person to help move these designs forward.

Dave Krendl: 1:40

Uh, we manufacture here at cool machines. Um, in the last 20 we make equipment, uh, mostly dedicated to the insulation blowing market. But we have some equipment in uh in the movie industry for special effects making snow. We have some equipment in the aerospace industry that blows ceramic fibers into a recipe mixture for heat shields. We are pretty big in designing equipment that puts fiber into asphalt roads and we've kind of got a little bit into making some equipment for the oil spill business. So anything fiber we've been doing for quite a many years, um so. So that's kind of my background, um, over the last 40 years of this uh running and designing equipment in this field a little bit, since jeremiah doesn't have his little dog clicker to keep me in line.

Dan: 2:35

Uh, so when we're looking at this, we want to look at, you know, safety and all the different factors that go into using these vacuums. And we can even get into these blow-in machines a little bit, because we're going to have a lot of people listening that cross over into that field. All you know of doing both the removals and the reinstalls, whether it be be with foam or blow in or any other inferior product to foam that they want to talk about. Not that we're biased over here or anything, but you know some of the things I think that are apparent to touch on with this, of course, is the high velocity coming out.

Dan: 3:10

The back end of those vacuums has created a lot of issues for people that aren't doing things properly. We get into the first thing we're doing climbing into these attics and stuff. Where it's used for a lot is confined space entry, which we've hit that on a few previous episodes also, so we don't need to talk about that a lot. You know there's air quality issues, there's maneuverability issues, going through all this stuff, but let's just start on the equipment side of safety and just get to the very basics, if you would, dave, and let us know, like where we should start and where people should avoid and what equipment they ought to have to keep it safe.

Dave Krendl: 3:52

Okay, well, one thing let me just preface the discussion on. We've seen a movement over the last 12, 15 years in vacuums, going towards larger and bigger vacuums. We started out with some even small, little six horse units and they keep growing bigger and bigger over the years because of the heat issue and the safety issue in the attic. So you're down in Arizona or Texas or down in Florida, you know it's 150, 160 degrees in an attic and typically about an hour of that is about all you want to take up there in the attic like that, and then most companies like to get in and out of there in an hour. Ok, on an average, the smaller home. But so right now we've expanded the realm up into the 37 horse, soon to be 40 horse vacuums, 25 horse diesel. These are all truck mounts. They run a single hose up with two hoses in the attic with two people up there. So that's kind of where the market's going right now and that's created a lot of other issues. And when it comes to safety, because these vacuums are so powerful right now that they can suck up golf balls, I mean some pretty large projectiles that can get into that system and it can be fairly dangerous if you don't have the right equipment equipment. So we've we've basically have a five point safety procedure design that we try to incorporate in in the, in the design of the vacuums and the accessories that make it more safe. Okay, so the first thing that we encourage is a vac saver on the front end of your vacuum, and what that vac saver is is a box that either mounts on the vacuum chamber or it sits out in front and it's got a deflector system in it. So as your fiber goes through from the attic with all the garbage you're going to see, including tools and Christmas tree ornaments and all that, because you can't see that that those objects in that fiber pile, so as they're sucking that stuff up, when the objects hit the deflector plate, it bounces it out of the airstream and the fiber continues through the box separation into your vacuum. So now we're getting rid of 90% or 95% of all the dangerous projectiles that can come through there.

Dave Krendl: 6:11

On the output side, we offer and highly recommend using a safety output elbow, and what that safety output elbow is is it's a 90 degree turn that points it down towards the ground as the flow comes out. There is a two or three inch section beyond the 90 degree curve that we call it a catcher's mitt. That product fills up in that chamber or that deadhead area and it forms a cushion like. So any little screw or little thing that may pop through it softens it down and slows the velocity down coming out into the hose in the bag. Because I've seen it so many times if you go a direct hose off the exhaust of that chamber and you get just the littlest nail or a screw or something, it'll shoot right through that hose and possibly hurt somebody and or cause some damage to a vehicle next door to it or whatever. So we want to make sure that we're putting on the intake and the exhaust Safety mechanisms are going to mitigate that high velocity projectile going through the vacuum.

Dan: 7:19

Dave, while we're talking about velocity, just to give everybody perspective, what kind of velocity do you see coming out of the back of those vacuums? Are we? You know? Well, let's talk about. I don't know. Their diesel is a beast, their diesel is a badass is what they are.

Jeremiah: 7:34

Yeah, that diesel is man.

Dave Krendl: 7:36

I have seen them throw things through the hose and stick into the side of a car door. Yeah, I saw that.

Jeremiah: 7:42

I saw a rat bone whiz by me and stick into a car door one time myself. Into a metal car door, Into a metal car door yeah, Whiz by me, I was standing. I started hearing them so I stood in front of the helper and I got. You know I'm wearing the carhartt jacket.

Dan: 8:00

thankfully I got hit and I watched one hit the car door and just go right in dang. Now we know why. He's in the special effects in the movie industry thing. There you go. They're doing cool stuff like that, yeah, awesome well, yeah, so a hand or something in the way is shredded.

Dave Krendl: 8:11

That's not good, yeah well, yeah, you know, when we back up a little bit here and not talking just about the vacuum design accessories, we always recommend uh, wearing, if you're the person on the ground around the vacuum, you should be wearing a face shield and hearing protection. Okay, there's not that much dust to worry about, but, uh, like you do in the attic, when you're up there, but on the ground, you should have a face shield on and hearing protection, because, again, it's the belt and suspenders approach. We can do what we can on the design and accessories, but we also need, on the other hand, a person to have something in place in case there's, as a fail, safe mechanism. Okay, yeah, so, so, uh, so, um, let me let me go back and address about the speed. Okay, velocity. I can tell you that the tip speed of these vacuums, on these larger blades, is about 250 miles an hour, okay, so. So, when you were turning that, so many inches per second going out of there, I have to assume that those blades turning a tip speed like that are going to throw something out there at 200 mile an hour plus, right, so it's nothing to be fooling around with, so, and what I'll do is I'll move on to.

Dave Krendl: 9:31

Okay, we talked about the vac saver on the front end. What I'll do is I'll move on to. Okay, we talked about the vac saver on the front end. We talked about the uh, the um, uh output safety elbow that directs both directs the product downward, so it's not going to hit anything, plus slows it down, and then um, uh, in addition to that um, we put a um the construction of the vacuums that we build now I don't know about the other suppliers out there vacuums, but we use AR-500 steel.

Dave Krendl: 10:01

Now if you're familiar, if you're a gun guy, you're on a shooting range, that armor plating you're shooting at. That dings every time. That's AR-500 steel. So it's very hard, very hard to penetrate through. So our, our, our band around the chamber where the objects can pop through or when it wears through.

Dave Krendl: 10:21

On the regular units we use a quarter inch thick AR 500 steel. On the bigger units the 27 horse, the 37, the 25 diesel we use a double band there of half inch AR 500 steel because if anything flies loose anywhere, we want it not to be able to penetrate out the radius of that chamber, okay, so so that's the second thing, or the third thing that we have in our five point safety mechanism is that the construction is a very hard abrasion resistant steel and in the construction process, especially on our blades and our larger blades 23 horse and larger we use an ar 500 on that also, but we also use a gusseted blade. So we come in behind that blade and we weld support behind it so that it's structured and welded secure enough that a blade can't break loose when it hits an object. They're pretty durable the way those blades are made. So the construction itself of the blade and the chamber are important in the safety. As we move forward here. Any questions as we move on there.

Dan: 11:33

No, yeah, I'm like it's cool to know that guys are out there putting that kind of engineering into these fans, because so many people are just oh crap, and the thing just started up. Let's go, let's get our butts in there and get going.

Dave Krendl: 11:46

Not all of them. This is a self-promotion thing a little bit, but we don't. We want to be able to sleep at night and not worry about it.

Dan: 11:53

Exactly.

Dave Krendl: 11:55

But not all of them do it. But I would say that anyone who's looking to get a vacuum, that's a very important aspect to the construction of that vacuum. Ok, the other things that are pretty standard in the industry that we deal with we put both a safety flapper on the intake so that when they're turning it on it automatic, with no hoses and automatically, the flapper shuts. But that's that's kind of a frilly thing what we really put on there to make it effective as we put limit switches on the intake and the exhaust. I don't know how many times I've been out in the field and the guys open up that flapper when they got on and say let see how strong that is, and they hold their hand in front of the tube. You know I'm great, yeah, and dumb and dumber and uh.

Dave Krendl: 12:43

So the way we've been doing this last several years now is the hose has to come up against the limit switch and or the, or the um, it's like a little flapper, uh, it has to depress that before allow the engine to start. And the same thing goes on the exhaust, because if you turn that on and you don't have anything on the other end of that tube and something gets sucked in there by accident. It's flying out at a couple hundred mile an hour. So so we put a safety limit switch on the exhaust also. It can be another thing that can go wrong, but we'd rather have it go wrong and have to troubleshoot it in the field than have people playing around when running these things without without having any hoses on the intake and output right and getting a finger sucked into that thing and uh, it's happened.

Dave Krendl: 13:28

You know there's been people that have lost a finger, a digit, a little finger because it got pulled in and they're lucky, that's all they lost. But, like I said, we are trying to look at this and say what can we do within regular means to make this as safe as we can? And the last thing that we need to have a discussion on and deal with is static electricity.

Dan: 13:54

Oh yeah, no, my people love to talk about that.

Dave Krendl: 13:56

Yeah, grounding out on an aluminum ladder two stories up. I've had guys tell me in the attic when they're using these hoses sometimes if they have steel-toed shoes on, the spark will jump from the hose down there by their feet under their steel-toed shoe.

Jeremiah: 14:18

All right, oh yeah, I've had that happen. I've had that happen.

Dave Krendl: 14:21

Yeah, you can imagine they're jumping around a little bit, yeah, just a little bit. Yeah, they're testing the drywall out to see if it's going to hold. But in any event, in that regards, certain times of the year when the air is dry, there's not a lot of moisture in the air the static is worse. All the fibers cellulose fiberglass, rock wool they all create some sort of static in the right atmospheric conditions. And what a lot of the contractors do to mitigate that, if that's, that's an issue. Now some people tell me they never had a problem. You know other people. It's a real problem.

Dave Krendl: 15:01

But, um, what's been done over the years is they will take the steel connectors between the hoses and they'll run a wire and ground each one back to the vacuum.

Dave Krendl: 15:11

Then they'll run a ground wire from the vacuum because, keep in mind, the vacuum itself is sitting up on the ground, on rubber tires or rubber wheels, so it's not on the ground. So what they'll do is run a ground wire from there to either a water spigot on the house, which is usually grounded, or they'll take just a long shank screwdriver and connect the wire onto that and stick it in the ground, or crack in the concrete. They'll stick it down as deep as they can get it, and that usually will drain off all the static. Now when you're spraying or blowing fibers with an insulation machine, it's the same thing. You can get static, but with some of the fibers, because of the dust, they'll use a wetting system. So anytime you put moisture in the product a little bit, you don't have a static issue so the but we'll just kind of break this up into components, I guess, of the job.

Dan: 16:03

But so we have somebody on the ground and I I'm guessing you recommend having somebody there monitoring the vacuum all the time, not, oh, just ditch it and everybody hop up in the attic. But, ppe and task wise, what do you tell the people on the ground to wear and to watch for and where to be and what to do with this vacuum? Why they're just on the ground as bags are filling and stuff.

Dave Krendl: 16:28

Okay, good question. And let me just say this, other than what I mentioned on the face shield and hearing protection, knowing where to stand and where to be is important, ok, so obviously you know when you're handling a gun you're not pointing it around your head, ok, right, yeah, you got to remember that the the end of the gun or the end of the vacuum exhaust is a dangerous place to be. So so want. We don't necessarily want to hang around out there and and you don't need to be there you can be back watching the vacuum work and be ready to change the bags, because on these big vacuums, every five to 10 minutes they're changing a bag. We have a disc diverter that allows you to fill a bag and as soon as that bag's full, you just channel to the next bag and change bags. You're never shutting down, but, with that said, most of the people that are filling these bags don't need to be in and around the bag at all.

Dave Krendl: 17:22

Normally we recommend having a discharge hose of about 15 to 25 feet away from the vacuum. That will go either into a dump trailer or into some sort of trailer, or it can go into a dumpster, but you don't need to be around that watching that area of the, of the, of the, of the process. Yeah, so that's all the PPE. I don't know that we need steel-toed shoes down there, but it'd probably be nice because you don't know when you're going to drop something on your feet when you're dealing with equipment that weighs a couple hundred pounds. Right, exactly, we've always used basic gloves, ones or whatever. They can usually protect your hands because, again, we're dealing with hose clamps and on some of our vacuum hoses there's a wire that goes through them and it's sticking out, sometimes an inch or so, and it can impale your hand a little bit. So, yeah, wearing a pair of leather gloves would certainly be recommended. It probably might help mitigate any static issues too be recommended.

Dan: 18:31

It probably might help mitigate any static issues too. Jeremiah, what's the worst place? You've seen anybody set up a vacuum before? Because we've got carbon monoxide issues, we've got heat issues, we've got all kinds of stuff. You had to have run into something that made you want to slap people across the head well, I it was.

Jeremiah: 18:43

It was actually one of one of dave's machines. When I first took a job not too long ago. You know I had these guys. You know I took a job as CEO with a company to clean it up and stuff. And Dan, you're aware who this company is, but Dave, I'll leave him nameless. But you know I go on this rig and it's a box truck, dave, and the box truck is full of insulation bags and what's leaning against all the insulation bags running with no ventilation, kind of midway in the truck, one of your no ventilation, no anything, just running balls to the wall Excuse my language, yes, to me, that's, you know. And there's a fire on that truck because they didn't listen. So you guys can't have this. You got to move it out of here, you got to get it, you know, you got to have ventilation. It's a gas engine, you know, in a closed space and they didn't listen so it caught the insulation banks on fire yeah, two issues.

Dave Krendl: 19:49

I can see it's a problem and let me kind of expound on that is that most of our vacuums, up to including our 27 horse, are all portable on wheels, so they should always be really taken out of the vehicle and run outside.

Jeremiah: 20:05

It's not a lot to ask, dave. When the machines move very easily and when you have three to four got grown men on site, it's not impossible to do the right thing.

Dan: 20:14

It's really nice when the tires are still left on the vacuum.

Jeremiah: 20:18

That was another thing. One had no tires and that was their excuse. I'm like, well, there's four of you and it's not that heavy. Pick up the vacuum and put it where it should be. Yeah, it's. That's honestly like I said.

Dave Krendl: 20:32

I'll say this the mufflers get pretty hot and if you're stacking bags around these things and or even if you put it away too early, like well, let's say, we're done running after three or four hours, that sucker's hot. I would do all my uh, you know, clean up and all the everything first while that thing's sitting down, cooling and that would be the last thing I put in my vehicle and absolutely make sure that there's nothing that can fall down on the muffler, because it can.

Jeremiah: 21:00

Yeah, exactly yeah it sounds like common sense. But once again, you know, dan, and I said this a few times you know common sense is not that common and no matter what you put on the machine, you guys do a great job with warning labels. Don't put your hand here. This is going to be hot. Even though it's a muffler, there's still a label and but you still go on these job sites and find these guys like doing these things. It's like it's. You can't fix a few things, but I like, dave, I think you said you guys do as good as you can do with the stuff when mornings and the guys just need to listen and read once in a while more than anything else.

Jeremiah: 21:37

Like this piece of equipment is an engine with an impeller on it like I don't. You know it's. It's crazy what it does and how it works, what you guys design and the things it does. But it's in, it's a heavy equipment does, and how it works, what you guys design and the things it does. But it's a heavy equipment these guys need to respect. Sometimes they don't. They go to the job site, turn it on and you know they don't understand what they're using Sometimes. I think that's the biggest deal.

Dave Krendl: 21:59

You know, on some of our larger vacuums we they're not portable anymore, they're actually mounted on the back of the truck. But when we do install rigs here we will plumb the exhaust down under the truck. So it's not in the box and but we still. And then a lot of the guys end up putting ventilator fans on the front of their vehicles or on the side of vehicles to help put some ventilation in there. Because you know, again a hundred degree ambient down in Phoenix Arizona it gets hot in that truck when you got a big, a big rig running in there.

Jeremiah: 22:36

So they were melting, they were melting belt, yeah, yeah.

Dave Krendl: 22:44

And let me say we're always looking for suggestions on making things safer. I mean, if someone has an idea out there and whoever your listeners are out there want to have an idea and they don't mind passing it on to us. We certainly are very receptive to upgrading and changing things. Our poor customers, when they buy a new piece of equipment, it's probably different than it was a year ago. You know and learn from our customers.

Jeremiah: 23:11

Well, you got to make upgrades and updates right To improve.

Dave Krendl: 23:15

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we, we have to think of another reason to charge you more money. Yeah, just kidding.

Dan: 23:25

Okay, so let's move to the to the other end. We've talked about the vacuum and the output side, and to fill in bags, let's go to the suction side. When guys are up, uh, in an attic or whatever space, they are actually doing a removal, um, let's go ppe. What should they have on? You know we've already talked a little bit about confined space, air quality issues up there, any other things like that and any other cool tips or tricks you've seen, dave, that will help somebody get a job done faster, because an efficient job is a safer job I agree.

Dave Krendl: 23:59

Um, well, first of all, absolutely have a breathing protection on. I can't remember, it's a n NIOSH 95 or something like that rated mask and and again. And when it gets hot up there 150 degrees, you know you're you're sweating and everything like that, but you definitely have to have a mask on. A lot of the guys sometimes will wear the cotton suits you know, just to keep the any of the itchy stuff off of them. Up in the attic when you do the job is important. We see a lot of the contractors now. Even though these things make a little bit of noise, they try to get on the job site early enough, around 7.38, if the neighbors aren't complaining, get that job done before 10 or 11 in the morning. Or sometimes guys will kind of do their other work during the day and come back at night around 7 or eight. If they can do it until 10 and it is, try to time it so they're not hitting the peak time of the day when the sun's the hottest. Okay, um, so, um, uh, breathing masks, uh, probably goggles, because that stuff can be your eyes. The vacuums that we have, the certain size ones on up, will take bats. So we make different devices that hold the hose for you so you're hands-free holding the bats like a taco and feeding them down the hose. So there's a lot of that going on.

Dave Krendl: 25:24

The vacuums can take water-damaged material. We sell a lot of these to the contractors down in Florida right after these hurricanes and they blow these roofs off. So you know they like, so they're pretty. You know we sell a lot of them to the restoration companies. You know, like SurfPro. So pest control companies are getting these things. The pest control companies are getting these things. When you talk about the foam contractors, you know just about every foam contractor I know has a blowing machine and a vacuum. You know and speaking of that, we got some foam contractors that when they cut off the big chunks or whatever no, I'm sorry, not the big chunks, but when they scarify the surface into the smaller pieces, they'll take a six or eight inch hose in there and suck up all that stuff into a bag.

Dan: 26:12

You know, get rid of it done it like it it's a heck of a lot better to broom.

Dave Krendl: 26:16

I'm scared as hell of those brooms, yeah uh, the big chunks you cut with the blades, uh, they're a little bit more of a challenge. But uh, we have a. They'll either run in there with a hose, um, or they'll go in there with an electric vacuum. So we have we make a line of electric vacuums or run off a 12K generator. So you get a generator out in your truck or trailer, you can run the electric vacuums in the house where you're foaming, and we have a three foot vacuum chute that goes on the front of the chamber and you flip the lid up and you just sweep all your pieces to to the chute and it just sucks them up and throws them outside in the back.

Dan: 26:52

Nice, nice. Now my crew will have something else they want me to spend money on yeah, there you go.

Dan: 26:58

Yeah, I might my guys leaves in her yard yeah, um, so you know you get up in those attics. Of course the guys are climbing around wires and you know piping and duct work and everything else like that, nails, um, god dang, nail staples, all kinds of stuff that'll pop up in there, and so you know I make sure they're wearing at least heavy jeans, uh, when they climb up in there. No, no shorts. You know you're not getting up there in your Crocs, even though Crocs are cool. I don't care what everybody else says, crocs are cool.

Dave Krendl: 27:37

But, yeah, gloves, suits, masks, eyewear pretty heavy duty shoes, you know, because if you step on a nail you don't want you to, you want to at least try to bend the nail a little bit so it doesn't go through the foot all I mean through the shoe. You know, but you can't. I wouldn't recommend tennis shoes, you know, if you got a decent work shoe. You know they can be low tops or whatever, but they make some pretty durable work shoes out there that might help mitigate the danger of stepping on a nail up there or something Sure.

Dan: 28:14

Well, it's the coolest accessory You've seen.

Dave Krendl: 28:15

Somebody throw on the end of a hose to help pick stuff up uh, well, first of all, uh, we do have vacuum tubes, but they're not used very often because they're very uh, limiting on your maneuverability. In the attic, um, for the wall spray industry, we sell these four foot tubes that they vacuum off the floor and they don't have to bend over to do it in the house, pick up the recycle. But in an attic, we've sold a number of the two foot tubes just to give them a little bit of a rigidity and a handle to hang on to the hose. But a lot of guys don't even have anything on the end of the hose, they're just moving it around.

Dave Krendl: 28:50

I will tell you one thing that they do is they will take the hose and they'll cut a concave end to it so that when it's sucking so hard, it doesn't keep planting itself on the drywall, it brings in air from the side, doesn't keep planting itself on the drywall, you know it brings in air from the side. So, so, uh, but no, I mean, uh, the vacuum tubes are the predominant thing that people do use at times. Um, I've never seen any other types of. I don't know if you have something to add to that oh yeah, I don't know.

Dan: 29:20

Just every once in a while you run across somebody that made some homemade gadget. That's like God dang, that's a miracle.

Jeremiah: 29:26

I used to duct tape room handles to the end so I could reach it back into the back of the eaves. Because, he's right, I had the tube too. I always use that tube and you're right, I tried to get some newer guys to use it and they did not want to use that tube, dave. I loved it in certain applications but I found the thing that the guys, like I said, easy is usually what they use and I would show some guys that duct tape. You know broomstick to the end of the hose and more guys than I like to admit that's the way they went, even though they had the other piece of equipment. You know that tube that could get down in there. That is really well the one you guys sell, but broomstick on the end of a hose man.

Dave Krendl: 30:03

What I see most often is they'll take that broom handle and they'll let the hose hang out eight inches to a foot beyond the broom handle and they'll tape it maybe once or twice close towards the end because they want to be able to have that hose bend short of the broom handle so it's laying flat across the attic. So I've seen some guys prefer to put the broom handle several inches beyond the hose. You know, because it was always sticking to the drywall when it was sucking out. But like I said, if you prep the end of that hose with a concave surface on it where it can't stick to the, to the attic drywall, OK, that's a great idea.

Dave Krendl: 30:44

stick to the to the attic drywall. Okay, yeah, that's a great idea. But I've seen some guys use those, uh, short extension paint roller sticks and the other ones that are aluminum. They'll take a four footer, you know, and they will um tape it onto the end of the of the paint. They're telescoping so you can adjust them to whatever length you want them, but, um, you know, that might give you a little more flexibility if you need to extend it up to eight feet along and tighten it down and get back further than what a broom handle will do. Sure.

Dan: 31:16

Yeah, jeremiah, what have you seen Other than the broom?

Jeremiah: 31:22

Oh, other than the broom. I mean, honestly, he's right, Like they they don't. That's what I see most. He's right. Most guys don't put anything on there. They're climbing back there and they're throwing that hose like it's a whip trying to get it where they want it.

Jeremiah: 31:35

So it's, it's like technique and you know they've. I guess more times than not, guys in their heads think you know. Anything else you got to put on that hose is going to add more complications to an already complicated situation. You know, when you're in a retrofit trying to get that attic clean the right way it's you're trying to get in and get out. Most guys aren't going to take another piece of equipment, so it's like your hands are the most simplest thing they can use, like the broomstick or the paint roller, something they have that you know they can carry with them if they lose it or they forget it or it's stuck in the attic somewhere. It's not a big deal, right? Your boss isn't going to get mad if you leave a $4 paint roller up there or a broomstick that was broken anyway. So you know that's the other thing too. A lot of times guys will leave things up in those attics and yeah, Especially the wireless remotes.

Jeremiah: 32:20

Oh yeah, I stopped buying them, dave, like after a couple. You're like all right guys, like if you don't care enough to understand how nice this thing is, well, that's why we started putting beepers on them.

Dave Krendl: 32:34

If you don't press a button within an hour, if you have enough patience to stay there, they start beeping up there. Yeah.

Dan: 32:39

But let me add something the homeowners love it when a guy leaves one of those behind.

Dave Krendl: 32:44

oh, it sounds like they're, uh, they're, they're smoke alarm batteries dead so that's how you screw with your buddies.

Dan: 32:52

Now just throw one of those up in an attic and let them worry about their smoke detectors for a week yeah, if you want to throw 500 up there.

Dave Krendl: 33:02

Uh, let me, let me talk about uh, do you guys get into doing bats very much?

Dan: 33:07

a little bit here and there. I mean, like I said, we're we gear this podcast. We kind of talk about the spray foam industry a lot, because that's where jeremiah and I are really based out of, but it's supposed to be all encompassing anybody and everybody.

Dave Krendl: 33:20

So yeah, go ahead well, let me just say this about the bats thing, because these vacuums, again, the larger ones, that will pull a full, uh bat down the hose, you know, 150 feet back to the truck. Um, these things get a little violent on you when they're going through the house and through around doors and door and window frames. So what we always recommend is, if you're going to do many of the bats well, first of first of all, if I'm holding the hose in the attic and I'm trying to feed a bat down there, you can't do it because as soon as that starts grabbing it, the hose recoils and pulls out of your hand or your arm. So that's why we make these brackets that you clamp the hose to. Then you put the double-headed nail a couple of them, up on the rafter to hold the hose for you while you're feeding it.

Dave Krendl: 34:04

But that said, um, a lot of the contractors are either taking throw rugs or or, um, any way they can wrap that hose around a door frame or a window. Um, they're wrapping it and then they're taking a sandbag or some weight and they're weighting it down. Because what'll happen? That that hose will sometimes gyrate three or four feet in the air and really do some damage to door frames and stuff. So if you're doing a lot of bats, secure the hoses down to something every I don't know 15, 20 feet. Try to secure it, because they go wild on you.

Jeremiah: 34:40

Yeah, they do, that's for sure. We also used to use those and also the the cardboard corners from our pallets of plastic boxes. We used to save and put on the corners. We use that against where the hoses were hitting, cause they would they jump and they, if you didn't have that cover on the corner, you could it definitely would dent that drywall.

Dave Krendl: 35:07

For sure it's got power. Oh, yeah, yeah. Now, you know, if I had a hundred horse vacuum, they'd buy it. You know it's just. You know everybody thinks bigger is better and faster. But again, we, you know you can only go so big and have to worry about safety. That we're talking about today because you're getting on. You know, something out there that can do a lot of damage if something lets go somewhere. So, yeah, awesome. Well, dave, do a lot of damage if something lets go somewhere.

Dan: 35:25

Yeah, awesome. Well, dave, we get to this point in the podcast after we talked about this and we kind of try to do a call to action for everybody. You know, just to, basically, if you could say one thing to the entire industry that uses your vacuums to keep people safe, what would your statement, what would your call to action mean?

Dave Krendl: 35:45

I would say we want to use two things we want to always use a vac saver and we always want to use a safety output deflector. Those two things alone will keep people from getting debris and shrapnel we'll call it that in through the system that can do damage If they just would do that. Yeah, we're talking maybe a thousand bucks for a vac saver. We're talking three or $400 for an elbow, but those two items alone. People just don't, sometimes don't want to spend the money on it. We're competing with everybody else, but we're highly recommending. All of our dealers that sell these for us are pushing the fact that you should have a vac saver and a safety elbow on it. So that's the big thing I can say about that. And um, back to Jeremy's point don't leave them in the vehicle and run them.

Dan: 36:41

Jeremiah, what would you add for the call to action on these?

Jeremiah: 36:44

Jeremiah, what would you add for the call to action on these? Just as I always say, dan, you know, like I said, I've worked for a spray foam manufacturer for a long time but I still, you know, I've been a contractor and did all these things and I still on job sites. When we're doing removals and retrofits and installing foam, it's respect your equipment, just like with the high pressure systems. Understand what you're working with. Where are the PPE that's recommended? You know, face shielding gloves. If you're the guy in the in the truck using the equipment, you know got.

Jeremiah: 37:10

Like you said, dave, you guys don't want to spend the money or don't want to take the time, but when something goes sideways, everyone's saying hey, what did you forget? Oh, your safety glasses, your visor, you didn't have the equipment. We're wearing your PPE. That was required and in a bad situation. Those are all the things that everyone's like man should have, could have, would have. Well, don't be the guy that has to say that. Respect the equipment, wear the PPE, take the time to check the oil, check your coolants, all those things that you know make these pieces of equipment run smoothly for long periods of time. Don't, you know, run it to the end of the world and wonder what happens when things break or you throw a rod or crack a block because you didn't check these things. Once again, take care of your equipment, it'll take care of you.

Dave Krendl: 37:47

I'd like to add about taking care of the equipment for a second. Yeah, go for it, please do. Yes, all of these engines, except for our diesel unit, are air-cooled engines, okay, and that means they stay cool in hot temperatures by the air coming across the cooling fins of that of the block of the engine and what happens is it's just like a lawnmower gets grass clippings around the engine. You'll bake the engine. So I see an all well generally with a contractor once he bakes his engine after three months of use and he finds out what it costs to replace it. They're always cleaning the engine after that. But if I could say anything in advance every time you use that vacuum and you get back to the shop, take a high compressed air air hose and blow off those cooling fins on those engines, uh, it'll last you a thousand hours or more. Otherwise you might get 50 hours out of it and you're going to bake your engine.

Dave Krendl: 38:38

The first thing to go is the head gasket. But when a contractor can call them, they say, oh, I won't start, it doesn't have any compression, they probably bake their engine. So keep them clean every. Sometimes people say, well, once a month I blow them off. That's not enough. Every time you go out there and get back there, blow them off. It's usually a lot better to do it when you get back to the shop because they're cooled down. The fibers want to stick to to the to the engine more when it's hot. So we we want to let her cool down. Blow off that engine, good, and you're good for the next time. Change the oil frequently on these things, because in the hot and dirty environments the manufacturer recommends changing the oil more often Every 50 hours. Okay, the manual says every 500 hours. Well, that's in a perfect environment. I mean not our manual manual that brings manual or whatever. So, yeah, service and taking care of that. So what's that?

Jeremiah: 39:32

I said I I don't really see these things ever ran in a perfect environment. They're always ran in that. You're like you said. You have to take better care of them than if what the manufacturer says right, because those are all tested parameters, but these are pieces of equipment, rooms, backs of box trucks. You know a hundred degree temperatures, 10 hours a day running. You know it's like you have to take more precaution and more care to make sure they keep going.

Dave Krendl: 39:55

You're right, just keep track of it In fact one of the biggest culprits that we've tried to get people out of the habit of doing. They'd always put their vacuum collection bags five feet or put the dip or you put the bag right on the tube of the output of the vacuum and if that bag gets a little leak in it, it's blowing dust everywhere. Where does it go? It sucks it back through the engine and builds up around that engine. So we always say keep the bags, collection bags, a dumpster, 20, 25 feet away from that vacuum, so if you get a leak somewhere it's not going to affect the running of that, of that engine.

Dan: 40:29

Yeah, yeah, and I guess you know my side from a guy that does not do a lot of removals. Um, you know, shoot, we did our first one of the fall last week. But it's have a plan and if somebody on that crew is proficient, have them write the plan for you. If not, call somebody, get somebody there, get, yeah, get something written down. Get an operating procedure for everybody on there so that nobody's in the wrong place at the wrong time yeah, there should be.

Dave Krendl: 41:01

In fact, now that you mentioned that, I will put that on a decal for everybody, for you guys. Okay, I can put a something together that has maybe a five step or seven step procedure to follow right on the vacuum. They're in the owner's manuals, but no one, nobody knows where they're at right now well, that started the fire in the barrel out front.

Dan: 41:24

That kept us warm in the morning.

Dave Krendl: 41:27

Okay, there you go. But no, I you know, really, when I think about it, we put all the decals saying keep the bag away from the thing, keep it whatever. But if there was a cheat sheet, so to speak, or a six step plan that was pretty inclusive in those six steps that the guys might read if you got in front of them, uh, you can say there it is yeah, no, and again, we've got a whole website that we put all this documentation on so that everybody has like a single landing site to go to to get this, and this would be great to have on there.