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Spray Foam Mafia: Toolbox Talks on Safety
Weekly Grab and Go Toolbox Talks on Safety in the Spray Foam Industry
Get ready to uncover the critical safety secrets of the spray foam industry with our host, Jeremiah Schoenberg, a seasoned expert with nearly 25 years of experience. Discover how Jeremiah's career took a surprising turn from a gun range in Montana to becoming an industry stalwart and learn about the rewarding yet intense work that shaped his passion of the industry. Alongside, co-host Dan Benedict shares his journey from the cattle industry to owning Spray Foam Arizona showcasing the rich diversity and dedication within our industry.
This podcast delves into the heart of safety, discussing the importance of personal protective equipment (PPE) and fostering an open communication culture around safety concerns. We emphasize the need for engaging and practical safety training and reflect on how individual safety practices impact the broader business ecosystem. We also highlight the importance of certifications and training to boost workplace safety and efficiency. Join us to set the stage for future enlightening conversations on equipment, mental health, and industry best practices.
Spray Foam Mafia: Toolbox Talks on Safety
Podcast #8 Ensuring Job Site Safety: Evaluations, Urban Challenges, and Innovative Practices in the Spray Foam Industry with Rusty Schrader and Miguel Mora
Send us your Questions for Jeremiah and Dan
Uncover the secrets to maintaining a safe and efficient work environment in the spray foam industry as we engage in a fascinating exchange with Rusty Schrader and Miguel Mora from UPC. Our experts reveal invaluable insights into the critical process of job site evaluations, highlighting how to identify and mitigate potential hazards before they become problems. From inspecting for moisture in metal structures to spotting and addressing trip hazards, you'll learn actionable steps to prepare any site for a seamless and secure spray foam operation.
Navigating the urban landscapes of cities like San Francisco and Los Angeles presents its own set of challenges. We share strategies for effective logistical planning, ensuring your project runs smoothly despite the bustling environment. Discover how pre-planning for parking, obtaining necessary permits, and communicating proactively with local residents can prevent conflicts and minimize disruptions. Our discussion sheds light on innovative safety practices, including the benefits of leaving rigs hooked to trucks and the importance of securing equipment on-site to avoid potential mishaps.
In our final segment, we tackle the delicate balance between productivity and safety in commercial spray jobs, especially when the work involves cumbersome gear and complex site conditions. Hear personal anecdotes and professional insights on using techniques like "spraying by sound" to maintain efficiency without compromising safety. We celebrate the industry's shift towards safety consciousness and commend those who share their experiences to educate others. With practical advice on using scaffolding and ladders safely, we remind all professionals to prioritize their well-being and avoid unnecessary risks to build a safer working environment for everyone.
For comments, suggestions, safety shares and questions email us at sprayfoammafia@gmail.com
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All right, welcome back to another episode of Toolbox Talks on Safety for the Spray Foam Industry. New episode we're lining up two special guests today. We got Rusty Schrader and Miguel Mora, both with UPC Guys. You want to jump on and introduce yourselves real quick.
Miguel Mora:Yeah, so I've been in the spray foam industry for 10 years and you are Rusty.
Dan:Go ahead. No, no, no, no, I was joking with you, miguel, you didn't say your name, Sorry, yeah, yeah, sorry so yeah, I'm Miguel Mora.
Miguel Mora:So, yeah, I've been in the spray for wie industry for a little over 10 years as a tech, started working for UPC in 2020. And I've been there since then. I did took a year off so I could go and spray with my brother and we have our own company in Louisiana, but uh, but yeah. So I've been pretty much in the uh, yeah, for 10 years almost, or maybe a little bit over 10 years, but, yeah, awesome.
Rusty:Rusty, everybody knows me. My name is Rusty Schrader. Sorry you have to hear my squeaky voice on here, but uh, I started my journey in this industry in 1997, then took a little vacation in Corcoran and then I came back and been in this industry ever since, started in the roofing part of it, took a little break when the housing market crashed, came back in 2010 and came back as a spray foam insulator in that year. Then you know we were. I worked for somebody else for seven years and that's that's when I started my own company 2017. Then took a job with UPC four months ago. May of this year is when I took a job with UPC four months ago. May of this year is when I took a job with UPC as the West Coast Technical Supervisor over there.
Dan:Very cool, awesome. Well, guys, we're glad to have you. Today's topic was job site safety, job site walk, job site evaluation Jeremiah, what do we got here?
Jeremiah:Well, I mean, when it comes to job site safety, it's like when we're training guys, especially new guys, you try and tell them you know when you walk into the job you don't just pull your hose and start going at it Like you need to walk into the job and have a plan to efficiently execute, like the day's work right. You don't just walk in and start working, you walk in and check stuff out, make sure everything's as it should, framing, you know everything's passed, everything you need done is done, because once again, you don't want to cover up someone else's oops, right. So I mean, it's really from the get, from the time you get to there in the morning to the time you leave at the end of the day, is you know job site safety right? You're trying to plan for success and you know, of course, not to have any problems.
Dan:So Miguel, Rusty, guys, what do you do? What's your routine? In a day, you show up on a job site at somewhere. Maybe you quoted that job three or four months ago and you saw it a little bit then, but now it's a whole different world.
Rusty:What's your guys' routine? What are you looking for, looking for? Okay, so for me, um, and especially right now in this season of the year where we're actually going into a cooler season, okay, um, if I quoted a metal building, beginning of summer, first thing I do when I get out and check that metal building is I'll check for moisture on it. You know, um, then you're going to walk that building from the outside to the inside. Um, you're going to make sure that there's no trip hazards for your crews. You know, when you're going in, make sure there's no open gaps in the concrete on the floors or something like that, where your scaffolding or something like that's going to fall in.
Rusty:Um, I did see something from Anthony Scott Royds in New York, two days ago I believe, where his helper covered up a piece of wood that had nails sticking out of it with the plastic. I saw that, okay, that is a big thing for any crew. The very first thing you do the I just did the saturday, sunday first thing I do, you know, is is move everything out. Everything in the floor comes out of the floor before you put plastic down. You know, once you've done your, your exterior, walk around of the job site and if there is trip hazards or open trenches or anything like that on the job site, obviously you're going to get your crew together, you're going to notify them. You know of any hazards that are on the job before you start it.
Rusty:Then, before you go in and you prep, clean the floors, you know like we'll go in, we'll take everything out and I may even bring a blower in, you know and blow everything out before I even put plastic down. You know, especially in a metal building, because you need tape to stick to concrete. You know you're not using staples and stuff like that. And then, as Jeremiah stated, you know you walk through. You make sure that the framing that's been done since you looked at the initial job, the job initially, to the point of now you're there to spray it. Maybe you have a bunch of hidden corners where they've got, you know, a double King stud or something in there that you have to go in. You have to pre-drill those so you can actually get foam in there, so you don't have a dead air space. You're not just covering that up.
Miguel Mora:Yeah, yeah. So the same thing, just like resta said, making sure that everything is clean. You know that the uh contractor did is they did their job, you know. Basically, make sure that everything that it was supposed to be done, it was done and the inspection was passed and everything, because, uh, you want to make sure that you're not having to stop half of the uh, you're done with the walls and then you have to stop because they didn't do a roof inspection or anything like that. Uh, but for the most part, yeah, uh, cleaning your, you know, your work area is very important. I have seen many people step into or even myself I have to step into nails that weren't covered, or, you know, or pulling my hose and then it just gets trapped, you know, because there was wood that was covered with nails. You know things like that that uh actually matter.
Rusty:Um, yeah, before you know it, you gotta. You gotta pinhole from pulling your hose around a corner or something, because it was put on a nail right and it's just cost you 2500, if not more.
Miguel Mora:You know, yeah, so yeah, and just so, make sure that if there's other people that are not with your crew if they're, you know, make sure you put barricades or something like that to block from them. You know, getting onto your uh, you know your workspace and then get it over sprayed. Or also, you know, um uh people, you know bricklayers. Sometimes they drive their uh wheelbarrows and on top into, on top of your hose. So it's just uh, you know. Yeah, just make sure that all your equipment is also taken care of, you know yeah, yeah, out.
Dan:The stucco guys are notorious. Oh, stucco, stucco guys. It's like their scaffolding's already in your way to start with, and then, second on that, they got their wheelbarrow and they want to go right over the top of your hose every time.
Rusty:I was on a job site in Temecula about a month ago and I pull up and there's a hose running across the road, you know, because it's a track home. So they got their rig set up here and then they got hoses just run, you know, so they can reach three or four houses without moving their rig. And I pull up in front of the hose and park and I turn around and look and this guy drives over the hose and parks his truck. Oh man, yeah, I politely told the guy. You know, you're really lucky, that wasn't my hose.
Dan:Oh, party foul, Jeremiah. Oh, it's Hunter, hunter, what's?
Jeremiah:up. Should I let him know we're doing a podcast or put him on? Yeah.
Speaker 3:Should we put him on? Put him on, oh shoot, hey Hunter podcast or put him on.
Jeremiah:Yeah, put him on. Put him on. Oh shit, hey, hunter, hey, how you going? Sir? Hey, good man, I just want to let you know like you're on speakerphone on a podcast with rusty miguel and a few other people perfect yes, what do you need, man?
Speaker 3:uh, basically I was calling because uh got a customer out in idaho just looking for a. They're trying to buy a rig here in the next week, week and a half. Okay, just looking for somebody that has one for sale, looking for a hydraulic machine, but yeah, Okay, yeah, I'll send you a number as soon as I get off the phone.
Dan:How much has he got to spend? Oh?
Rusty:What's the budget?
Dan:What's the budget, man, let's get serious about this everything's for sale if you just get the right price. Like I'll deliver one wrap for the nice spray foam arizona sign on.
Speaker 3:You got like four foamers in a room all trying to make money off.
Dan:Yeah, and a rig builder so sorry, man.
Speaker 3:No, i'm'm with you. That's the whole point of me giving this phone call, I know. But yeah, just let me know I'll get the budget and everything.
Jeremiah:Okay, well, I'll shoot you a number and he'll be able to help you out with whatever that guy needs, for sure.
Dan:In the meantime, I'll come up and do some contract work. What's?
Speaker 3:that Hunter's been been here. He knows what I do.
Jeremiah:I don't think he knows I'm with you, though right now. I just said I was with you on your phone, or I don't know if you're sitting here, sorry, but yeah, all right. Okay, I'll see, I'll see your number and he'll he'll help you out, all right.
Dan:Thanks, man I have no idea where we were at talking about.
Jeremiah:on this, you got the edit button in your hand, you got the clicker, clicker, clicker.
Speaker 3:I didn't click it, you didn't click it.
Dan:Well, that's right. Well, and I'll even back up, I guess, guys a little further. I'm pulling on a job site. We'll even pull up and park, walk it before we even decide where to park the truck. At Absolutely 100%. We're not just going to park and say, ok, this is where we're at, and set up camp right there every day, because there's always something right where you wanted to park, there's always something there you know not, we don't all get the luxury of people in Texas.
Rusty:You know that have a 20 acre place. You know that they can drive a 40 foot rig on. Some of us are in the Bay Area or LA, you know, where you can barely force your rig down a street, much less into a driveway, right, you know. So that's, that's a really good point. You know, it's very valid. For you know, when we pull up, sometimes we got to block traffic. For you know, when we pull up, sometimes we got a block traffic we have to take. We have to take that day and go get permits so we can actually take a lane or take up the whole part in San Francisco or Los Angeles or something like that.
Rusty:You know, yeah, because you don't get to just pull up and park there. You know, if you're on a main street in san francisco, okay, because they got one parking spot or maybe two parking spots in front of their house, and then you have to get approval from the neighbors when you're pulling a 30 foot trailer in with a truck. You know, and you got a 50 foot total length rig and you're going to take up their spots plus two or three other people's spots, you know, and then you're going to take up their spots plus two or three other people's spots, you know, and then you're going to be dragging your hose out, you know, and then, and like for me, sometimes I I pull my rig in and then I have a pull behind generator that's got to go beside my rig, yeah, you know, or I got to pull in and be able to, because you're not going to be able to go and hook up to their power box, you know. So, um, there's a lot of different, very variables to, even before you get and start your job, exactly what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dan:Yeah, and we talked a little bit. You know we kind of joked about the stucco guys and stuff and some of these other contractors on site. But one thing that's always reinforced, and whenever it is trainings, is signage. Like when's the appropriate time to go out there and stick up signs? Is it like oh, I'm just about to open the manifold and start spraying the day before you start the day?
Rusty:before you start. The day before you start, you should especially if you're roofing, If I'm doing a roofing job, a partner complex or something like that I go a week, two weeks before and put signs up everywhere. And then you know, put stuff stuffers in the mailboxes. You know what I mean. Letting everybody there know look, we're going to be spraying foam from this day to this day. Your cars will either be covered or they need to be moved, and if we cover them and you uncover them, you're then liable for it. Right, you know. But yeah, um, on just a regular residential, the day before you're going to be there, yeah, have your signs up and you don't have to put your caution tape up until you start, but definitely should have your signs and stuff up the day before, in my opinion.
Dan:Alright, and for both of you guys unhook the rig or leave the rig hooked to the truck. There's always the debate about the two when you pull up there for safety.
Jeremiah:Depends on the neighborhood Depends on the neighborhood. Are we in Oakland or are we in?
Rusty:some small town in Montana. 99% of the time I leave my rig hooked up, uh-huh, yep. So I mean I lock my truck, put my keys in my toolbox in my trailer, yes, you know, but I hardly ever unhook unless I have to go get something or something like that.
Dan:You know right, yeah, sending the helper up the street for lunch or cigarettes or something, you get the trailer and hopefully he's smart enough to unhook it, so I just don't give him lunch but yeah, for the most part we obviously leave it hooked, especially because it's a gooseneck trailer so it's so difficult to you know, and also it's a metal trailer so it's so heavy.
Miguel Mora:Having to hook and unhook it's just too much hassle. We lost probably about an hour 30 minutes, then 30 minutes. It's just not worth it for us. So just leave it hooked and it's sometimes easier just to pull in the house and and take off with the trailer sometimes.
Rusty:So I mean, I'm sure everybody just seen the live that I just did Saturday. You could see I was unhooked in that driveway. Okay, obviously, you know cause? I didn't have enough room for my truck and trailer to stay hooked, so I backed in, I unhooked and then I parked in front of my trailer. So that's, that's what I'm saying. Probably 99 percent of the time I don't have to unhook, but if I do, obviously, then then my truck gets parked in front of my trailer and locked in front of my trailer, right yeah?
Dan:So hazards? And locked in front of my trailer, right, yeah, so hazards? Um, I mean, let's just start outside everywhere between your trailer and whatever ingress point to the house you're using. What are you looking for, uh?
Rusty:trip hazards. Mainly. First thing I'll be looking for trip hazards, uh, um, again, boards with nails in them that are. You know, the first thing I'll do is if there was a pile of wood that they had taken out of that house I just finished with nails all in it, you know. So we took those and put them off to the side, turn them where the nails were upside down, you know, facing the concrete and then stepped on them to flatten the nails right, you know what I mean as best we could, yeah, out of the way of where my hose was going to be drugged. So, um, not just for my hose, though, but for me and and, uh, whoever's working with me at that time. You know, because stepping on the nail don't, it's not fun no, it's serious, it's yeah.
Dan:No, it's serious.
Rusty:Oh, it's you ever had a nail, go clear through almost all the way through your foot or go into your heel to your heel bone. That'll put you down for, you know, two or three days where you're not walking on it, you know it sure will and risk of infections everything else is serious. Yeah, for sure.
Dan:That's Miguel. What are you looking for?
Miguel Mora:Yeah, definitely, yeah, definitely. Uh, you know, most of the time, whenever I go to a job site, there's always, uh, you know, the people that have, uh, done the concrete. They always leave all their wood, all the you know leftover concrete on the side. So I try to limit, um, try to make sure where I park it has the least amount of debris or anything like that. That way we can just go in park and not have to worry too much about any hazards really. So we always try to look for the spot that is the cleanest and then from there, you know, move whatever we need to move, prior to even moving our trailer there and also dragging, dragging our house, because we don't want to try to drag our hose and then having to to struggle, you know, moving everything else concrete rocks are.
Rusty:They're a pain dude.
Dan:Oh, they're terrible. Yes, yeah you know.
Rusty:And one thing you know I don't know how anybody else's contracts are written up, but but my personal you know, for me it's in my contract that a homeowner or any living or breathing animal dog, cat they cannot be in the home, whether I'm doing the bedroom closet or I'm doing the whole, you know, remodel or whatever, right, they can't be there while I'm doing the job or for 24 hours after I'm done. And that's that's in my written contract, so there's no questions asked. You know we didn't know this or we didn't know that. You know, right. And then you know at the end of every day, whether I finished the job or not, windows are opened and they're left open so it can actually air out. You know it's air exchanges without. I don't put a bunch of fans and stuff in there unless I absolutely have to, because california is california.
Dan:You know what I mean. You get a blackout. Your fans aren't going to work anyway well, I mean, it's bad enough.
Rusty:They see me walking with full respirator, you know, and I look like I'm a yeah, I'm going into some alien thing, you know um, versus if I got, if I have an enclosed area, if I'm doing a retro thank goodness I don't do a lot of retros, so I don't, I don't need a ton of uh of those uh in and out airs, you know. So, uh, obviously, in a in for the guys doing retros, they have all that stuff, hopefully. You know that they're putting fresh air in behind, where they're pulling fresh air out or old air out, you know, and they're exhausting it far enough away, yeah, from the entrance. You know what I'm saying. It doesn't do you no good to exhaust it down out of the uh, the entry hatch and into the house. You got to carry that out a window or out a door and get it outside, you know, so you can get your true air exchanges in there well, and we're the same way.
Dan:We tell everybody windows and doors, keep them open for 24 hours and let that air exchange get it fresh, get the off gassing done, get everything out of there before you go. And we had one client that was kind of a particular guy and he was in an area that, like I, I'd leave the keys in my pickup in this area. It was a really safe place. And we told him lock every. You know, lock your doors if you want, leave all the windows, open everything. Well, he shut everything down like Fort Knox, left it that way.
Dan:Middle of the summer, 120 degrees. Comes back in there two weeks later, calls and just starts lighting me up, oh yeah. And so I drive out there, you know, worried that, oh crap, something went wrong. And then you ask him, ask them, what'd you do when we left? Have you been in and out of this thing? What you know? Has it been this way this time? So I don't know. This is the first time I've been in it. We just locked everything down tight when you left. I'm like prick, I sealed this thing up as good as anybody on the planet can and your reaction was to ignore my instructions and lock all the windows and then call and complain at me.
Miguel Mora:Yeah, you know yeah, and the problem with that is that those fumes are even more like they're deeply trapped. Now they're concentrated, they're going to take a longer time for them to disperse, and the smell to go away.
Miguel Mora:That is. A lot of complaints like that happen whenever there's retrofits. They don't take the insulation you know, and then they seal everything off. Everything gets trapped into the all insulation and all that stuff. So it's just like, hey, we need to make sure, you know, everything gets, you know, some fans running in there, make sure that we get that all insulation, insulation out, you know, and then it'll be okay and they do that and you know so so let's get okay.
Dan:So we're walking in there, we're check for debris, check for rocks, check for, you know, nails, screws, fasteners, anything like that that's out there. Um, one problem I run into in a lot of my job sites is open excavation. Yeah, I mean, guys are putting in septic systems, guys are running a power line. It's inevitable that on a new build, somebody's going to be somewhere with an open trench and very few of them are ever going to be marked yeah, and it's not just exterior open trenches.
Rusty:You know they're moving, they're moving their kitchen or they're they're adding a bathroom, and then you have open trenches through in the concrete in the house with a sharp edge, because they saw the concrete and it's two or three feet deep right.
Dan:I mean maybe a little rebar sticking out.
Jeremiah:Yeah, like a foot wide.
Rusty:That's where the leg goes, yeah yeah, you know, or you know a really dangerous one. Also, man is um, uh, air conditioning and heating vents in the floors that they put these little thin fake covers on. You know what I mean? That gives you false pretense that your scaffolding will roll across, that it's an aluminum foil.
Rusty:You know, my son, dennis, had a really bad accident and his whole entire leg, from his hip to his knee, when the scaffolding went in that hole. He came down off that scaffolding and caught from here to from his hip to his knee and then before he even got, I think probably an hour, hour and a half after it happened, that thing was yellow and purple and black from the bruising. That lasted weeks. Luckily he didn't get seriously hurt, right, you know. But that's a really big deal to watch out for. Also, you know, and it's as us, as sprayers, we're masked up, we're up there, we're spraying, we're not watching where we're pulling our scaffolding, so that that leaves that puts it back on the helper. Yes, you know that. So to have a good helper is is a godsend yeah, so, yeah, that happened to me one time.
Miguel Mora:It was drains, you know well, the wheel caught up in there and so flip it, broke my ribs Right. But the thing is we were using, you know the yellow scaffolding, yeah, so at that point you know those are good scaffolding, but you're better off using. You know something bigger. You know like what is it off using? You know something bigger. You know like a, what is it four by six? No, what is it four by eight? Scaffolding, something bigger. That you know it'll. It'll save you from getting stability yeah getting stuck in there and then flip.
Miguel Mora:But yeah, yeah, my brother and my dad, they were pushing me on the scaffold and then all of a sudden started tilting. They'd try to hold it. So they got hurt, you know, their arms shoulder and I got my ribs broken, you know. So.
Dan:So you shut a whole crew down basically in one stop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, perfect.
Miguel Mora:Yeah, Just from a driving that you know, it was just there.
Rusty:Yeah, and that that's a big deal. On commercial jobs also, you know, cause you're, you're prepping and, uh, any, anywhere that's got a ton. You know that that's going to wash downs or anything like that. They got those big drains in the corners or on the edges and some of them are out in the middle of the floors, you know. And so what I use, what I like to do, is I'll either have them put a piece of tape in an x mark where that's at, so they don't forget while they're moving us, or I can see it when I'm coming by, you know or for anybody you know, you just get some marker paint and just mark it real quick.
Dan:You know, just any way you can just mark it so you don't forget about it, because the first thing you do when you get on that scaffolding is forget about everything but getting the job done Right, like you said, you're suited up, you're masked up, you got fresh air blowing in you, you got overspray air purge guns going and you're just focused on let me get this entire roof deck spray today so that tomorrow we can just get our walls dead, or yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's easy. It's easy to lose track of where you're at, especially when you're the guy up there on the scaffolding and you do. You rely on the people on the ground.
Jeremiah:Yeah, sometimes you can't see out of your mask, oh yeah, before you do a tear-off or you clean it off and re-spray. You can't see, so you're depending on those guys to watch out for you.
Dan:Yeah, we call it spraying by Braille, spray by sound.
Miguel Mora:Spray, yeah. Spray by sound. Spray by sound. Yeah. How are you doing this? Like I hear the frog, like don't worry about it, walk in the scaffolding. Like just touching you know you're doing the tap, like you just brought that up.
Rusty:And it's funny because I I had my six foot set almost to the highest level and I was backing up, spraying because I run sideways on the bays. I don't go long ways with the bays, I go sideways so I can do multiple scaffold, multiple bays before I have to move. Yeah, you know, and I was backing up and I almost stepped off that scaffolding. Yeah, you know, it's super. You just completely forget sometimes where you're at, you know and what you're doing, and and that us in this industry we want to go fast, definitely, and sometimes it's it's faster to go a little bit slower, right, you know so, yeah, it's counterintuitive, but yeah, we want to be productive, right and uh, and you know we have, you know, like SprayFoam Worldwide.
Dan:You know the biggest flex on there is I sprayed you know X amount of sets over three days or two days or whatever it is. And so, yeah, we have a culture of being super productive and it's kind of promoted that way.
Rusty:Well, I mean as an industry in a whole. We all want to be the the top dog sprayer. It's just that simple. And if you say you don't, you're lying exactly you know what I mean. Um, but we also. I can see the shift happening, um, where safety is is becoming just as important, if not more important, as being the most productive sprayer that day. Right, you know, because in the end, we all want to go home to our families, not hurt. You know, there's been a couple pretty good incidents in this industry in the last month, month and a half, yeah, and they've really opened my eyes to safety.
Dan:Well, and I'll commend the guys that will actually put it out there that it happened to them. Right, you know, they're actually brave enough to say OK, I did this. This happened to me Because a lot of people that that happens to they're not saying to anybody, and whether it's shame or embarrassment or whatever but, man, those guys are brave enough to put it out there they're helping everybody else they're helping people more than they'll ever they'll never know, yeah, yeah, they'll never know how many guys you get the new guys that are coming in that are watching all of us.
Rusty:Oh geez, if you know, if you will, that that we're busting out what we bust out because we know how to move fluidly, you know what I mean. But we're also, we've made those mistakes. And for the new guys that are listening or watching, when we post the videos or whatever, that's done with caution, you know it's, it's, it's because we, we broke an ankle, or, or you know, if some guys broke backs, you know, I I had a boss that stepped off of a six foot ladder, off the last step, and stepped wrong and broke his back. Yeah, okay. So that's another thing that that I'd like to bring up.
Rusty:When you're coming off that scaffolding, um, don't think you're cool and just step off of it, get down on your knee, bring your leg over and get your footing, because you know, um, 90% of the time your feet are soaking wet, like you just got to have a swimming pool, and they're slippery in that suit. You know what I mean. And all it takes is a quarter inch slip to lose your footing and fall six feet and break your back or your neck. Yes, you know.
