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Spray Foam Mafia: Toolbox Talks on Safety
Weekly Grab and Go Toolbox Talks on Safety in the Spray Foam Industry
Get ready to uncover the critical safety secrets of the spray foam industry with our host, Jeremiah Schoenberg, a seasoned expert with nearly 25 years of experience. Discover how Jeremiah's career took a surprising turn from a gun range in Montana to becoming an industry stalwart and learn about the rewarding yet intense work that shaped his passion of the industry. Alongside, co-host Dan Benedict shares his journey from the cattle industry to owning Spray Foam Arizona showcasing the rich diversity and dedication within our industry.
This podcast delves into the heart of safety, discussing the importance of personal protective equipment (PPE) and fostering an open communication culture around safety concerns. We emphasize the need for engaging and practical safety training and reflect on how individual safety practices impact the broader business ecosystem. We also highlight the importance of certifications and training to boost workplace safety and efficiency. Join us to set the stage for future enlightening conversations on equipment, mental health, and industry best practices.
Spray Foam Mafia: Toolbox Talks on Safety
Podcast #6 Confined Spaces Safety: Key Strategies and Techniques
Send us your Questions for Jeremiah and Dan
Imagine working in a confined space where every moment demands utmost caution and adherence to strict safety protocols. Join us for an eye-opening discussion with Jeremiah Schoberg from UPC, as we uncover the critical measures required to ensure safety in such challenging environments. We'll dissect OSHA's definition of confined spaces, from attics and crawl spaces to industrial tanks and sewer lines. Our conversation will equip you with essential knowledge about marking confined spaces, completing necessary paperwork, and the importance of respiratory protection and fresh air systems. Jeremiah shares invaluable tips on maintaining constant communication between workers inside confined spaces and safety attendants outside, ensuring a secure and efficient workflow.
What happens when verbal communication isn’t an option? We'll dive into the world of nonverbal communication, particularly in spray foam application settings. Learn the significance of using light signals for equipment status and emergencies as we share practical advice on monitoring equipment sounds and recognizing potential issues. Our morning check protocols, including inspecting breathable air systems and ensuring proper ventilation, are designed to prevent accidents and maintain a safe working environment. A real-life anecdote illustrates the dire consequences of neglecting these checks, reinforcing the importance of vigilance.
Safety doesn't stop at communication; it extends to every piece of equipment and potential hazard in your workspace. Discover the common dangers lurking in confined spaces during spray foam applications, from unstable ladders to faulty air hoses and electrical hazards. Our discussion highlights the importance of stable equipment and thorough inspection to avoid accidents, especially when fatigue sets in. We round off the episode with a glimpse into our personal lives, sharing hobbies like motorcycling, BMX racing, fishing, hunting, competitive shooting, and aviation. Plus, get a sneak peek at our upcoming episodes covering electrical hazards, mental health, and PPE with industry experts.
For comments, suggestions, safety shares and questions email us at sprayfoammafia@gmail.com
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From Spray Foam. Arizona Jeremiah needs to introduce everything. Two guys, one mic.
Jeremiah:I'm Jeremiah Schoberg from UPC.
Dan:All right, this is episode six and we're here to talk about confined spaces, confined space entry and how to keep yourself safe in confined spaces. IYou're in, yes, like I was trying to die. Yes, yes, you were, I was. I was trying to die. Yes, you were, I was, I was trying to die. You're trying to kill me too. Exactly, and luckily we had irelann there to keep us safe. She did, she did so. Um, confined space osha has an exact definition of it. Many and is OSHA's website, and they have it highlighted. Many workplaces contain areas that are considered confined spaces because, while they're not necessarily designed for people, they are large enough for workers to enter and perform certain jobs. A confined space also has a limited or restricted means for entry or exit and is not designed for continuous occupancy. In the spray foam world attics, crawl spaces are the first two that come to my mind.
Jeremiah:It's going to happen all the time now because you're thinking about not damn it.
Dan:There's another. It's going to happen all the time Not thinking about it, so that's another one. I'm sure, jeremiah, you've seen more places than just where traditionally we're thinking attics and crawl spaces.
Jeremiah:Yeah, there's. You know we, in a lot of some of the buildings we've insulated through the years that I've been a part of, you know you have, uh, concrete buildings. You have a space in between the interior ceiling and the exterior ceiling that could be anywhere from two feet to four feet and it's where they run everything in, like hotels and like commercial buildings and some of the top floors, right, so you'll have a really interesting I call it interesting space where there's one access and it's basically, like I said, two to four feet in between, six inches of concrete on the top and bottom of you, and you're crawling around in there insulating the roof, just doing your thing, um, but that's a little bit different. You know, like you talked about tanks and things like that, right, yeah, yeah, on the little hole, and you know right, I met.
Dan:I met some guys, uh, just the other day, and that's what they were doing was they were spraying polyurea coatings inside some water tanks and you look at the manhole cover that they pop off and are crawling through and you know, if you're lucky, that was 24 inches across, yeah, and they were crawling in there. I had never really seen a rig that had that much respiratory protection equipment stacked everywhere. I mean they had half a dozen masks, filters, I mean they knew respiratory protection was their thing. Kind of neat to see when you look at a lot of everybody else's stuff that has a mask or two. Maybe Everybody else is stuff that has a mask or two, maybe. So, anyway, so tanks, I know that there's guys that are in manholes, sewer lines where they're lining those, whether it be epoxy lined or polyurea coating line, all of those are fit in the definition of a confined space, yeah, of a confined space. So what's the first things we're going to do when we come up to a job and we're hitting confined spaces and we know we're going into it?
Jeremiah:Well, I mean you have to know the rules behind confined space, like how do you enter, how do you work in the confined space, how do you? You know what's your safety measures right, and then in most cases you know there might be some variables here, guys, so don't quote me but you know most cases in a confined space you have to mark the confined space has to be marked clearly, so when you're going in there's signage around it. You know confined space entry is approved and you have to fill out lots of paperwork to even go into these spaces. Like it's just you don't just show up on, you know 8 am that morning, get your hoses and go right in. Like it takes time to prepare the paperwork and schedule your time in there, because everyone on the job site needs to know someone is working in a confined space, especially when you're applying coatings, epoxies, even foam in some of these cases too, they need to know not to go in there because, once again, like you said, when you got on that rig, the amount of respiratory protection you saw was high level. Those guys understand that a confined space is a is a situation that you have to take every precaution you can and then like.
Jeremiah:The next step for us was you always had to have someone at the access point, always, and you had to have communication between the access point guy and the guy actually in the confined space at all times. So we had headsets or walkies that had the little headsets on them. So when you're in there, you have to have constant communication with your, with your guy, at all times, and so if something's going wrong, they have to be able to communicate. So if they don't hear you, they know you need to get out. Um, we've had guys, there's guys pass out in the confined space and the only way they got out is they're tied off and they pull them out.
Jeremiah:Yeah, so there's once again like a few safety measures, like I said, knowing it's confined space, how to work in there, having your you know your site guy or your safety guy at the access point and, again, like I said, having air that's safe to breathe. You know most of these spaces, you know you're in there and, as you know, from my point of view, any confined space you went in was always fresh air automatically. Yes, there is no respirators using a confined space where it tells me that cartridge will last for four hours or eight hours. I'm sorry, we're going to use fresh air.
Jeremiah:Yes, that's fresh air being pumped in the air Because once again, guys, as you know, the cartridges just filtered the air around you. So if you are heating up and off gassing in the air around you, you probably don't want to be using that air to try and breathe, right? So you want to be bringing fresh air in because once again, it gives you that cooling effect, it gives you fresh air, and then you're safe and again you can comfortably work longer.
Dan:So let's talk about communication in different ways, because when I started spraying, we were doing an attic, and this is one of my favorite stories to tell, is so jackson, my oldest son, is with me and I'm up in the attic and we're trying radios. Now, mind you, jackson probably found the timu, wishcom, amazon lowest, cheapest radios. And I was all the way up in the back of an attic having some problems with the gun sticking and I'm trying to communicate to him. He's not getting it. So I hump all the way out of that sucker, crawl down. I'm already mad, already pissed, throw the mask off.
Dan:And God damn it, jackson, I was looking for help up there and you weren't doing anything. And he's like I didn't know what to do. I said what do you mean? You didn't know what to do. He said sounded like darth vader was cussing me out. Well, he got the cussing out part right. He did have that right, like he knew what, but he knows me well enough to know that it's probably cuss words coming out of my mouth at that point. But so, um, the tactics, tips, tricks that you've come up with, uh, for people to communicate that may not just be verbal, and the radio communication is great if you have one that works. We didn't, uh, so I don't know if people can tell us like, jump on facebook and be like hey, hey, we use this brand, or whatever.
Jeremiah:It's not like you said, dan, it's not just the verbal communication. We don't in any confined spaces where we'd always use headlamps, Always. Yeah, because the other nifty thing that headlamps have is if you buy the right ones, they have anywhere from a steady beam, a flashing beam, a steady red beam or a flashing red beam. You're talking about nonverbal communication, so we would always stipulate there was terms or issues with depending. Okay, if the beam's on constant and it's the white light, he's working, going smooth, life is good.
Jeremiah:Beam is flashed, regular beam's flashing Issue with application Machine, depressurized, something like that. Right, sure, so the guy will automatically go check equipment. Yes, um, have someone you know you have to replace the guy at the hole. So the prep guy would have to come to the hole, watch the guy spraying and then you go check the equipment, of course, and then you'd have, of course, the red, which is that's when things are bad. Right, so you have constant red would be. I need, he needs assistance out ASAP. The flashing red is water and some lower level issue that we would stipulate for that flashing. But that's how you would like.
Jeremiah:I said, if you something's going wrong, the idea was, if you can't yell, hopefully you can at least get that fricking hit the button, so it's showing you know, and that's how we would, you know, deal with, say, those higher level emergencies where, like I said, if you were out of breath or something, you can at least remember that this is the way I'm going to try and communicate, right.
Dan:Another one. It's small, it may seem stupid, but for the guy that's outside that hole, if you're within earshot of the spray foam equipment and the pumps quit working you don't hear them cycling, you don't hear the stick pumps jumping up and down there's probably something going on and you better talk to that guy that's on the end of the gutter.
Jeremiah:Yeah because either he's moving to a new location, which will only take a little bit of time, and you're right.
Dan:And he probably needs help moving that hose around.
Jeremiah:Exactly right.
Dan:Especially in a space where he's dealing with, you know, small area or trying to climb around yeah, ductworks, wiring, gas lines, all the stuff you have to maneuver around, and so that's just a simple trick that you know. We tell everybody, and I'm sure 90 percent of the people that are listening to this going well, yeah, dummy, we all knew that well, you know, some do, some don't.
Jeremiah:You know, the information is not just for the people that have all the experience, but for the people that are listening. That don't right, because some guys don't know that stuff don't know. Hey, man, you know non-verbal communication and that's a really good point, because a lot of guys are thinking about being able to communicate verbally. That's why, like headsets, walkie-talkies, you know, nowadays guys are really lucky. You know, we age ourself. We have the next tell push button back in the day, right, yeah, now guys have the really nice bluetooth. You know headphones. A lot of guys listen to music. Even though I don't recommend in confined space, right, it gives you an opportunity to have something here that you can. You know, hopefully you can at least dial and get communication right yes, yeah, for sure, okay.
Dan:So we're starting out our day. We're going up to the crawl space. You know we've identified who's spraying first. You know we're getting things going. What do we need to do? What do we need to prep the area with?
Jeremiah:Like I said, you check to make sure your breathable air, your pumps are working, whether it's in the rig or you know. I don't recommend the little handheld units in confined space because once again that pulls air from the surrounding area. So you know, we always try and recommend to have the more filtered system that's out of the job site area, of course. So you check your filters, make sure there's no alarms, make sure you have good breathable air. Check your airlines, make sure there's no cuts or kinks or ways that the air can escape, because you're going to want all that air.
Dan:Right.
Jeremiah:Trust me, yo, every bit of it you'd like. I said it's, you know, once again, it's the normal morning checks, you know, is my, am I? Is my gun leaking? Do I have misting? Because again, that's a big one. For because if you're going in confined space and you know, in the house sometimes, guys, you'll see a little vapor.
Jeremiah:Yes, okay cool, that's all right, it's just a little bit. No, we tell you, no, it's not okay, but in a confined fate it's exponentially worse, because you're filling that space with whatever's misting out of the gun. Yeah, of course, if it's vapor, that's okay. Water vapor, that's going to create another issue in application, but not for breathable air, right. But all those little things, like I said, you know, is everything working as it should? Can I pressurize up? Is anything leaking? Because once you're in there, you want to be working and you want to be able to be safe while you're doing this, like I. Like I said air, you know the stuff you need mechanical, electrical and air. Is everything working the way it should before I climb in this hole?
Dan:So, a while back there's a little tiny garage. We're a mile from the house, basically a neighbor, and he's got a detached garage from his house. We're going up there to spray his attic for him. There's, it's built right where there's no gable vents on the ends of it. I mean it's prime for foam to be up there. So we go to the access hatch, get everything ready to go. Jake, my helper comes up there and props a fan up to blow air up inside there, and so I'm in there spraying, you know, happy as can be for a little while. He's got everything going, he's watching, making sure everything's working right and safe, and we are making this fog of crap through the whole building. I mean like you cannot see back across this thing. And I'm hollering at him like make sure that damn fan's pumping air. Well, my mistake was one fan, yes, sir.
Jeremiah:Yeah, confined space. You want to be exchanging air, not just introducing and compressing.
Jeremiah:Yeah, you're pressurizing in a very low level that area. Know, very low, low level that that area, right? Um, if you're not pushing and pulling air in, you're not bringing in fresh air while you're pulling out the off gassing or the heat or anything else, right? So, yeah, that was your one mistake, you gotta it. It has to breathe as you need to breathe if you know you want the area, like you said, you want all that stuff get out of there and of course, you have to have filtered systems to do that in those type of applications.
Dan:But yeah, pushing, pushing air in is just not enough right, it was nice when I walked back towards it and I had all that fresh air blowing on me to cool off a little bit, but didn't do us any good for air quality inside that thing. Uh, the other thing it didn't do me any good is venting the off gassing for the long-term effects of that phone. Yeah, you know. No, I think there is some recommendations as to what we should be doing there and I believe I was violating rule number one.
Jeremiah:Yes, usually it's about, you know, in a, especially in a confined, confined space application, it's at least 24 hours and if the square footage dictates that, I would recommend it'd be 48. You know, and I it's. You know, I tell guys. If you want a number, I usually I tell guys anything above, you know, 25, 2000 to 2,500 square feet, depending on the application. It's going to be 48 hours. Anything from zero to 2,500 is going to be 24, depending on, once again, if it's a high roof and there's a lot more foam going in Dan, or it's a lot more foam going in Dan, or it's a really long, distant, confined space, it's going to take a little longer to pull all that air out. Then, yes, there's going to be changes.
Jeremiah:But I always tell call, call your tech reps, ask them these questions. You don't try and go it alone because you don't have to, but usually those are the numbers and that's what I try and tell guys. Look, if you have a question, call. But that's how you break it down. Yeah, and that's again having to have intake and exhaust, correct Cross ventilation, cross ventilation, cross ventilation it's called air exchange, air exchanges. Yes, and that's what we say 24 hours to 48 hours, depending on. You know product and square footage is kind of what you're looking at.
Dan:Right and and during, by the way, and during, during and during. By the way, and during, during, during, not just like, oh, OK, we shut it down. Clock starts now. We've been spraying for three days straight.
Jeremiah:Let's turn the fans on. Let's turn the fans on now During as well. Guys, it's for your benefit and the product and the application.
Dan:And it also that time doesn't start after your helper has gone up there to help you bring all the hoses and stuff down. To help you bring all the hoses and stuff down, that guy should be up there with respirators, everything else to help you. You know, maybe after 24 hours, okay, but when you're done spraying, the valve, shut off, the gun shut off, keep the ding mask on while you're up there. It is still stale.
Jeremiah:Yeah, it is for sure, it's like I said, especially in confined space. It is for sure it's like I said, especially in confined space. There's no, it's unvented by design. So like you have to vent it, like you have to be the mechanical part of that, invented yourself. Like it's not a vented attic that you're sealing, it's not a retrofit that you know you're taking, you're sealing off the bird blocks, it's confined space.
Dan:You, in essence, have to create that exchange yourself and as insulators, as air sealers, the better job we do, the worse we're making it ourselves for air quality up there until it's done and properly vented out.
Jeremiah:Well, again, we can.
Jeremiah:You can also, like said in a, in a very loose term, you can look at a retrofit as a confined space because, dan, you just said it, you're creating your own confined space.
Jeremiah:Yes, and when we tell, when we're talking to guys about retrofits, you know most guys will go in, they'll go to the far end, they'll spray everything gables, vents, everything work their way out.
Jeremiah:I was like no, like I know you don't want to hear this, but you need to leave the gables open. Yes, you need to leave things open where air can be pulled in, pushed out during the application. So I was like I know it's not the most efficient way, but you need to pick and know that before you walk in, because you are, you're creating your own air barrier, you're sealing yourself off. So you're slowly creating confined space, especially in retrofit that has one attic access, right, so then, that's one of those ones. It's a little different because when you go into it, there's venting, there's everything else, but, like you said, you are closing yourself off and creating confined space as you actually do your job. So, right, you got to also take those kind of factors into play when you're thinking about these things and it's easy for us to go right to air quality and right to respiratory protection right there.
Dan:But there's other factors going in there and one of them is access and a lot of what in the spray foam industry we see as confined space. Entry is either crawling up an attic or down into a crawl space through some opening. I don't know how many times I've gone and you know you see somebody on a job site somewhere. You stop and say hello and they have Baker scaffolding that they're climbing up and down with no wheel locks on. You know the brakes aren't set on it. The ladders that are in the worst condition possible. You know I made somebody throw away her favorite ladder the other day and she was really pissed at me about it. Unsafe as well, and the jagged piece of metal sticking out of the base was right at her ankle. Oh, that'll do it. Yeah, katie, sorry You've got to get rid of that one. I know you love it, but there was some pouting on. But so, again, the plan that you're making you need to plan your entry and plan your exit and know a safe way to get in and out.
Dan:Crawl spaces I don't deal with them a lot. A lot of our construction is slab on grade around here. I don't deal with them a lot. A lot of our construction is slab on grade around here. Getting in and out of a crawl space when you're six foot one and 220 pounds is not ideal sometimes. No, in an 18 inch crawl space. 18 inch, yeah, on a good day uh. So nail screws um, uh, like the connector plates that are always sticking up right there. You know, I don't know how many times I crawl up there and put my arm in there, tear the dang sleeve of my suit, yeah, and that always pisses me off like there's money out the door right there. I hadn't even sprayed anything yet, that's's how it?
Dan:goes yeah. So what have you seen? Well, what have you seen that scares you and what have you seen that you'd like to see when guys are getting in and out of those really tight spaces as far as physical access goes?
Jeremiah:As far as physical access goes, you know, like I said, dan, it's doing, doing the right way. You know, like you said, you don't, don't have your access to confined space. Be the rickety ladder that when you come out after two hours of spraying is gonna wiggle. When you're kind of drained and need some act, you know, need some hydration. You know little the little stuff. Like you said, take a second to think like, okay, when I'm tired and worn out what might happen? Right, and that's what I try and tell guys.
Jeremiah:Not when you're 100, after you've been spraying for six hours straight, what is possible? Um, can I slip on the ladder? It's a little rickety, you know, if it's wiggling because the supports are, you know things like that is. You know, is the air hose that's connecting my mask? Is it? Should I have replaced it before I started because it's a little wiggly? It's been popping out. You know it's that stuff, right? Yeah, like it's all. It's always the little things that add up to the big things and cause an issue for for applicators so that's what I say is you know, once again, we keep.
Jeremiah:I think we repeat ourselves. You know, just take time and take the steps and don't skip any when you're doing these situations right, because there's no corner to cut in the confined space, like you don't want to think about that, right? You know, do it right. Don't think how fast can I get in and out? Okay, what's the right way to do it and the most efficient?
Dan:so yeah, and so those of us in the spray foam world a lot of times doing retrofits or even new construction in some of these confined spaces. Other trades have been there already. We're usually the last one in before they seal. That sucker up all the way Electrical hazards, gas hazards, what have you seen? What do you like to do to mitigate some of those?
Jeremiah:I haven't had many gas. I mean we haven't had gas hazards really, you know, besides turning, you know somebody accidentally hitting the valve that shuts off the furnace. You know what the heck you go up there. More electrical, um, I have to say, when you go in these space, look what's the age of the house You're going to see some knob and tube.
Dan:That's in a box it doesn't have a plate.
Jeremiah:for me it's. It's always electrical. It is because I just I see more issues with electrical. Like you know, renovations Is it a remodel, new construction? No, thankfully, dan, once again that's not one of the things you have. It's not even hooked up to power. But I say, you know, if you're doing big buildings and this and stuff, you know electrical is the kind of thing you want to look out for when you're crawling around.
Dan:Because I myself, like I said I used to, not, you know young, and you lean back, you take a full volt, the wires are exposed and things like that. Yeah, we've got some pictures, but I was looking in an attic last Saturday and I'm up there walking around because it's one of those where we're going to have to vacuum it out. There's a whopping like two inches of old cellulose in the roof of this thing. I mean, it's cherry, it's mint, you know. And walking around, you know crawling around, looking at everything, just kind of putting our plan together, and you know Katie's there and she's looking at it, and we look down and literally there's a box there and the wire nut holding two wires together is sitting in the bottom of the J box. I'm like, oh perfect, there's no cover on it. The wires are exposed, the you know the copper bear, copper ends are exposed. But at least somebody put a wire nut in the box to make it easier for people Like put it on. Yeah, they thought about it. They didn't leave us any electrical tape though where we could really put it on right. That's probably why it popped off in the first place.
Dan:Ok, but we're not electricians. We need to make that full disclosure. We are not licensed electrical contractors to tell you what's proper? No, but we feel the duct tape is so box covers. So, uh, box covers. Uh, I don't know how many of these houses around here that are built in the 60s or 70s. They put metallic j boxes in them, but they never put a cover plate on. Yes, so again, major risk right there, because you're going to walk across, you're going to drag a hose across that or something and you're already pulling plenty of voltage, you know, wrapped around your hose keeping the heat going. So, hey, let's add to the fun. Um, and as a guy that has had a electrocution issue in the past, I'm a little sensitive when it comes to that. Yeah, same here. Um, so breakers can be turned off.
Jeremiah:yeah, well, I was just going to say, like the simple question is there going to be power to the facility when I'm there, like like, if you know that's an easy question to ask when you go there, like, is there power, is there electrical, and is it charged where I'm going to be at? So you know, you can always ask those simple questions to just to know how to prepare a little bit.
Dan:Right.
Jeremiah:But most of the time we walk into a situation where, like you see it, and you're like, oh right, not like it was, there's a forewarning right. It's usually like, oh shoot, now I've got to deal with this more than right.
Dan:Wow, I'm glad I knew about this before I got here and yeah, look at the instant I'm talking about. We saw it before we ever, you know, before we even ever put the job on the schedule. We saw it to bid it and quote. And it doesn't happen a lot that that is just happened to be that one and we'll have to put the pictures up. I didn't think.
Jeremiah:I did think one about gas tan. Like you know, you want to look for the flexible lines. Yeah, I've had guys kink in a job not mine but kink the lines like sit on them. Like you said, the hose goes over it and sometimes they have that flexible line coming from the main gas to the, to the unit itself and that can kink it's. You know it's plastic and metal, right, you know, good guys stepping on it can compress it down. I guess safety wise in the confined space and those you know, look for those flexible lines because you can kink and that can cause a greater issue of course. So that's kind of popped in my head.
Dan:Yes, so that's kind of popped in my head, yes, and if you're in an attic and there is a furnace up there, make sure you know the proper way to spray that attic. Yeah With that.
Jeremiah:Yeah, yeah, it's gas and you know there's a lot of a lot of back and forth on how to insulate or if to insulate when it's a gas, or you know the 80 lower than 80 percent efficient furnaces and things like that. There's a lot of discussion, but that's a different podcast altogether.
Dan:Yeah, exactly that's a. Please consult your tech support team. They will gladly help you with all of that stuff Gladly talk to you about what to insulate and what not.
Dan:And if you don't have a good tech support person, call us, we'll hook you up with somebody, we'll find one. We will find somebody to help you out with that. Ductwork. Duck work is jagged. You know, somebody bending putting pans together, putting ducks together. There's more sharp edges on duck work than anywhere else I see in an attic anywhere. That's true Corners of those things. Like I said earlier, the plates that they tie trusses together with those scare the crap out of me when my hoses are being pulled through. An god I, even on new builds, I see those.
Jeremiah:those just bother the hell out of me yeah, when you're crawling around these spaces, that you have one way in, one way out. It's definitely important to understand, like, what can get caught on stuff, because after, once again, if you've been in there long enough and some it's different than if you just started you know something gets caught. You get kind of, you know, stuck in a corner or your hose does like. It's a different situation when you know your access is 50 feet away, right, you know so and it's easy going in because your helper's right behind you.
Dan:You guys are just, you know, happiest could be. Go lucky, we're gonna spray this attic today or whatever, and you know, two of you are walking that hose. I guess the other big thing that I want to talk to about confined space especially when it comes to addicts, because that's where it's really prevalent in the spray foam industry is, in an emergency, the number one easiest place to get that guy out is through the sheetrock. Yes, I don't like to pay to replace sheetrock. I will gladly pay to replace sheetrock so that my people on my crew come back tomorrow.
Jeremiah:Yeah, it's, sheetrocks it. It might be a long discussion with what you know, the customer, but it comes down to safety and if you get in a situation and I I've had I've told guys that I think then you and I've talked about that, yeah, it comes to it go through. Definitely I will not be mad if you were stuck and stressed and had to go through for safety like I'm. So it's a conversation I'm willing to have with a customer and explain what happened, fix it and move on, because I have not met one customer that hasn't understood when it's that situation. You know. Of course there's the ones where they're like what, how'd that?
Jeremiah:happen, but in those situations I've never had a customer be like oh my gosh what the heck? Yes, it's always, are they okay? Thanks for telling me. I'm glad everything worked out. Thanks for fixing it and you move on right.
Dan:Exactly. Do not be afraid to do it if it gets to. Don't put a second guy in a bad space trying to save the first guy. Yeah, just go through the sheetrock.
Jeremiah:Yeah, do what you have to do. You know if, if something's going wrong and he's in there and you go in, yeah what? If, like you said, you both get caught Right.
Dan:Exactly. And and is there a third guy to save you at that point? Yeah, is there guy to save you at that point? Yeah, is there? Is there? Isn't? If there isn't, yeah, no, don't be afraid to do it. And every spray foam employee, spray foam arizona employee that's listening to this today, I'm reiterating it to you guys. You know it's that big a deal to us that do not be afraid to do that. And all right. So call to action on confined spaces. Know your ventilation, plan your ventilation engineering controls.
Jeremiah:Everything is planned before you go into that space, like there shouldn't be something you show up to the job in oh shoot, we need this, no, these. In these situations, everything should be there. You should be prepared before you go in.
Dan:Right, and guys that are doing this on a regular basis. I mean, there's guys who do this every single day. Their whole business is removals and reinstalls and retrofits. You guys know what's up, but still think ahead far enough to plan, be diligent about it. So that's our call to action. Confined spaces, now listener questions. We've had a few come in, some of them better than others, so I do not have an OnlyFans page. Thank you for asking, though. Oh man, one of them was hobbies. What do you do outside of the world of spray foam and outside the world of this podcast? Are you asking me to? That's what somebody else is asking.
Jeremiah:Okay, um. Well, I have three um kids that we that live with me and one that doesn't, so that you know when I'm not, you know, working I'm spending time with them. You know they do soccer drama karate Keeps me pretty busy For myself, you know. Besides, that you know selfishly I, you know I ride motorcycles. I ride BMX. I've gotten recently back into racing. God help me.
Dan:Nice, we'll see how that goes. You need somebody to buy you a good helmet. I got a good helmet.
Jeremiah:It's a good, good helmet. Right, it's a good, good helmet. Okay, All right, good. I do fish and hunt when we do have time to do it. That's also very enjoyable.
Dan:Yeah, very enjoyable. Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, what about yourself? Well, again, similar scenario three kids at home. One of them just lives up the street, uh, and a lot of time with him. We've got kids in band, uh, we've got, yeah, uh, two of the two of the boys are competitive shotgun shooters. So we spend a lot of time at the shooting range breaking, breaking clays hopefully, breaking clays, hopefully, hopefully breaking clays. The averages are better for us these days. That's good From well. We're always working on something. I've got my oldest son just got done putting a six OLS swap in a little single cab, little short bed truck. Nice, souped it up, you know, new cams, everything else. It's pumping like you know six, seven hundred horsepower out of some little tiny truck.
Jeremiah:So that's nice.
Dan:Yeah, those are fun for myself. I've been a licensed pilot for 20 something years. I really enjoy the world of aviation. Like I said, that's been a lifelong passion, uh, something my dad and I'd always done together, so it's kind of a family thing. That's been awesome and fun. Uh, it's a great way for me to just get away from the world. I've always thought about it too. That definitely, yeah, has potential.
Dan:It's peaceful. I bet there's days it is so peaceful and quiet. Four thousand five you know four or five thousand feet up. The world is just looks different up there, and Kristen's always made the comment like you go fly, you're different when you come home, and so aviation is a big hobby. I can always gather up another hobby, it seems like, and so there's always been. You know the ones here and there. But again, the kids're. They're banned, they're shotgun, shooting, uh, 4-h activities. Kids have show pigs right now, and flying. That's the big ones that can take up our money fast. They can. Time sorry, time is what I mean, not money time their hobbies just get more expensive as they get old?
Dan:they do. Yes, they sure seem to All right. So, everybody, episode six, confined Spaces. We've got quite a few more coming up. We're looking at electrical hazards. We're going to get Carlos, an electrician, that's going to come in and talk to us. We've got some mental health stuff coming up.
Jeremiah:More stuff on OSHA and safety and PPE coming up from some guys from the industry.
Dan:Yeah some awesome guests coming in on PPE, some really cool stuff coming in on that stuff. So again, like and subscribe. Spray Foam Mafia is the Facebook page. Follow us, subscribe whatever you can on all of your favorite podcast platforms and we will see you next week. Thanks a lot, guys.
