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Spray Foam Mafia: Toolbox Talks on Safety
Weekly Grab and Go Toolbox Talks on Safety in the Spray Foam Industry
Get ready to uncover the critical safety secrets of the spray foam industry with our host, Jeremiah Schoenberg, a seasoned expert with nearly 25 years of experience. Discover how Jeremiah's career took a surprising turn from a gun range in Montana to becoming an industry stalwart and learn about the rewarding yet intense work that shaped his passion of the industry. Alongside, co-host Dan Benedict shares his journey from the cattle industry to owning Spray Foam Arizona showcasing the rich diversity and dedication within our industry.
This episode delves into the heart of safety, discussing the importance of personal protective equipment (PPE) and fostering an open communication culture around safety concerns. We emphasize the need for engaging and practical safety training and reflect on how individual safety practices impact the broader business ecosystem. We also highlight the importance of certifications and training to boost workplace safety and efficiency. Join us to set the stage for future enlightening conversations on equipment, mental health, and industry best practices.
Spray Foam Mafia: Toolbox Talks on Safety
Podcast #5 Chemical Safety Part 2: Maximizing Spray Foam Performance-Preconditioning, Equipment Essentials, and Industry Collaboration with Aaron Carden Energy Fox Solutions
How can a few affordable tools transform your spray foam insulation projects? Join us with industry expert Aaron Carden of Energy Fox Solutions as we uncover the secrets to avoiding common pitfalls like poor yield and shrinking foam. In this episode, you'll gain practical insights into managing temperature and moisture, using essential tools like infrared thermometers and moisture meters to achieve superior results. Jeremiah emphasizes the critical importance of these basic investments and shares tips to ensure every contractor is well-prepped for success and safety.
Don't miss our in-depth discussion on maintaining your equipment and ensuring safety, especially in extreme weather conditions. Learn how tools such as indirect heaters, barrel warmers, and ceiling-mounted heaters can save time and money while enhancing efficiency. Jeremiah offers invaluable advice on proper equipment maintenance and the benefits of community knowledge-sharing. Whether you're a seasoned pro or new to the trade, this episode provides actionable strategies to improve your spray foam insulation outcomes. Tune in and elevate your craftsmanship with practical, expert advice.
For comments, suggestions, safety shares and questions email us at sprayfoammafia@gmail.com
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So circling back around through kind of everything we did and kind of discussed on this. So best practices, optimal temperatures are a big thing. Jeremiah, what happens when you show up and somebody calls you and you said they're not getting yield? They said the foam's flat, it's not growing, it's not. I mean. Besides look at me like I'm an idiot what's the next thing you're going to do that?
Aaron:would never happen.
Jeremiah:No, no, never that's free Dan.
Dan:That's free. That's a free, look you get that for free.
Aaron:Well, it's. Where'd you start? That's my first question. What was your temperatures when you started the day? What's your liquid in your barrel? What's the ambient temperature? What's the substrate temperature like all the factors on a job site that come into how the product processes are my questions. You know, and they're, they get redundant and some guys, but at the same time I'm not there so I have to ask the bare minimum of annoying questions to figure out where you're at and why you could possibly be having a problem. But, like, once again, it's always preconditioning. Yeah, every problem that a guy has can trail back to the preconditioning. Oh, I don't have the yield. Oh, it's shrinking. Oh, like, either you overheated, you underheated, you didn't mix, you have too much pressure, too little pressure, too much heat, too little heat. Right, there's not a lot of factors that come into play. It's one plus one equals two, and if it equals three, then you've done something wrong. It's pretty straightforward stuff.
Jeremiah:What are your thoughts? So when you're going on, we're talking about proper temperature, proper storage, proper processing of the material. So when you're walking onto the back of a rig, say I've got Energy Fox spray foam insulation, which I do not, I'm not a contractor.
Jeremiah:We are not competing with you in any way shape or form it's an example only you walk on the back of my rig and you don't see an infrared thermometer or you don't see some of the basic tools. Where does your headspace go to? Because, again, like you said, it's all pre-processing, it's all the setup to get to the end result. We've talked about drum handling, we've talked about having barrel wrenches or pipe wrenches or drum handlers, but that's the big scale things. Right, those are your higher dollar items. But what are some of the items that these guys can have on their rigs to where, when you open the back of it, you're smiling because you know that at least they're taking the steps to get there?
Aaron:Yeah, I mean that's fair, 100%. I mean you look for a moisture meter, the infrared temp gun. You know these little things. You know it's $30 a piece. But once again I'm asking what's your substrate moisture, what's your barrel at? And everyone usually will go to the machine no, no, that's great, but I need to know what the liquid in the drum is. I need to know what the substrate temperature is. Like you said, a moisture meter, an IR temp gun, little things like that is what you look for, because then you kind of know where to start your training or the demo at.
Aaron:Okay, these guys have these things, they already care about preconditioning in the beginning. So we're already a little bit, a few steps ahead. So you get on the rig. Like you said, there's none of these tools, there's no spare parts. You kind of know okay, this is where we're starting. We're going to start in the beginning because it does help and, like usually, like I said, I give those things away like candy. Sure they don't have one there you go, go Like please take this, this is a very important tool Like this is like a slap hammer for a helper, like if you can't put up plastic, what?
Jeremiah:do you do it's?
Aaron:the same thing for an applicator. If you don't have the moisture meter and the IR gun, here you go. Let's explain why you should, and it kind of starts that conversation. But you're right, it's. Those are the bare minimum moisture meter, ir temp gun. It starts you off in the right foot.
Jeremiah:Help me, help you, right? So we're going to do everything on our end you as a manufacturer, me as a distributor. We're going to do everything that we can to make sure that when you leave here, you're set up for success. At the same time, you have to help yourself too, and there's a lot of cut corners, unfortunately, sometimes, and they end up biting these guys right in the butt on simple things that you could have fixed. Like you said, a $30 IR gun, a moisture meter. Ask your manufacturer. I know, for example, upc sent out a bunch of those IR guns. Does it cost them a little bit of money? Yeah, but what it saves them as far as tech calls.
Aaron:It's an investment for the company and they understand that that investment will help these guys understand the importance. Oh, if UPC's using this and spending the money on this, well it's probably important because they know how much these cost. They know that none of this stuff is. Everything adds up fast in this industry and every little bit you can do to save time and money is important.
Jeremiah:Yeah, and just not cutting corners where you shouldn't be right. You know tools, the equipment that you buy, it all matters. No one ever cuts corners in this industry. No, what are you talking about? Never seen it? Moot point. I don't even know why I brought it up.
Dan:Do not open Facebook. No, we'll be disappointed.
Aaron:Yeah, I mean yeah.
Jeremiah:From my perspective. We want the contractors to be successful. That's how we stay in business. We have things that we do to draw attention to ourselves, to try to earn your business. I'm not big enough to where, if we lose a customer, I've got 10 more coming in to take their place. We're just not so.
Jeremiah:We have to look at this as a partnership. If we lose a customer, it's a big deal, so we have to drill down, and then again that goes back to extra work. What could we have done? We could have made sure that they had that IR gun on there. We could have made sure that we got questions answered with Jeremiah or whoever the tech rep is. We could have made sure that we had somebody on site before you spray a new product. The benefit to all of us is it's seamless, right From the end customer, that you just put this product in their house all the way down to the sprayer, to the contractor, the owner of the company, to the helper, back to us as a distributor and then to you guys as a manufacturer.
Jeremiah:If everything is in sync, it moves the industry forward to where, when we have conversations, we're talking about okay, what's the next step and how do we grow instead of?
Jeremiah:Okay, this is what everybody's doing wrong, so let's go back and correct it. And this is a perfect topic for that, because you know improperly handled materials will cost you time and money, can cause problems for the home that it was installed on and all of that falls back on us. And then it rolls back to UPC or AccuFoam or Central or whoever the manufacturer may be. So getting everybody on the same page and having educational conversations like this, that they're actually full of substance and not just guys sitting around a microphone just goofing off, these are real conversations that somebody can put this podcast on 30, 45 minutes to their job site and they've learned something. So when they get out of the truck they go back to the rig and they see that they don't have that thermometer, they don't have the moisture meter, they didn't have the barrels properly secured. Now it's fresh in their mind and it's something that they can grow with.
Dan:Yeah, Okay, so you. That's my favorite song, dan. Thank you, I thought that was on mute. I'm sorry, sorry, I'm getting scolded over there on the other side of the room Because she asked you ten times and I did. I hit the mute button.
Jeremiah:Dan and Kristen like to make the jokes about how I always have two phones and I'm constantly juggling For make the jokes about how I always have two phones and I'm constantly juggling For this.
Dan:I actually set them on the ground where I can't see them. So there's like three of us in the room and I think there's five or six cell phones going on right here all at once. And there it goes, super Mario.
Jeremiah:Yeah, exactly.
Dan:Super Mario. Click on the hand. Click on the hand. Okay, back on task. Here people Look serious. This is important. You have to listen to the laugh track, okay. So you go to a job site, you're getting ready from the applicator guy's standpoint. You open up the doors to the rig and something has happened. You froze overnight, you overheated overnight, whatever has gone on, depending on what season it is, what part of the world is in, what's the first thing you should do? And we'll just start right now, with hot Barrels are swelled up, what's the very first thing you're going to?
Aaron:do. Well, you want to know the temperature. So you got to know how hot that drum is, because if it's in a certain parameter we're going to tell you not to touch it. You know, if it's a certain temperature, you know that that thing is diet coke and mentos if it's closed cell, open cells, a little less strict when it comes that stuff, but we'll always, if you have that type type of condition okay, man, you're gonna have to let that stuff calm down for 24 to 48 hours, depending on how hot it is, especially if it's closed cell.
Dan:Because you pop that and by calm down, you want us to cool it down. Cool it down.
Aaron:Take it back to a central location that you do have control over the condition so you can bring that temperature down safely before you open it, because once again you open that bung.
Dan:You don't know?
Aaron:It's the Bellagio fountain going on right and I know you're on a job site and things, and if you're trying to get the job done. Yes, this can be frustrating, but once again, it's a chemical. You can't just hope that it does what you want it to do. It's going to do whatever the heck it wants to do when it comes to those conditions. So of course, you take safety into account and we try and help. Like you said, Everyone laughs at the ice bags, but ice bags have saved my day many, many times.
Aaron:When I know, I was like, okay, I'm just going to surround it with ice bags, give it a little bit of time and go about my thing.
Jeremiah:Disclaimer on that make sure the drums are completely closed before you start ice bagging. Yeah, you know, don't put ice bags on top of
Dan:your ISO and things like that, of course, guys.
Aaron:But you know it's more of an example. But yeah, you do what you got to do within the parameters. Once again, the tech team or your distributor is going to tell you what to do. Don't try and go it alone. That's the great thing right now, guys, you don't have to go it alone. There's definitely a phone number for every person, whether it's your distributor or the tech for the manufacturer that you buy from. There's no shortage of that anymore, which is great. Or even, like I said, go on social media. There's guys that want to help with these type of questions. There's no reason that you should go it alone, or? Oh well, I'm just gonna pop that drum and cross my fingers and hope for the best.
Dan:No, you're gonna get the worst you're gonna get every time, I promise, ask the question along that line.
Jeremiah:You know, everybody knows that you can pop that drum open coke style and try to let it breathe out a little bit.
Dan:You mean the dollar sign? You're trying to let all the dollar signs go flying right out of it.
Jeremiah:That's exactly what you're doing. You're trying to save time by again shaking Coke, bottle it and let all that out. But all you just did was you just cut your yield down, Right. So you're setting yourself further back by trying to save some time, and it goes again, cutting the corners. If you're going to cut corners, cut the right corners. Don't cut corners when it comes to your material. Don't cut corners when it comes to your tools and your equipment.
Dan:So let's go the other end of the spectrum. It's cold. It's one of those days where you're right on the fine line of whether we're going to be able to spray or not at all, and the heater didn't work in the rig, or it was parked in a shop and that heater went out overnight, and so the diesel indirect heaters are blowing and whatever you're about to spray, um, you're rolling, you're ready to go, and that rig is ice inside well, I mean like, like, like there's.
Aaron:No, the machines aren't going to. Cold is a little different. If you have highly viscous colocell or roofing foam. The machine is just not going to pump it, it's just not going to work to a certain level.
Jeremiah:You're pumping a problem into your equipment.
Aaron:Yeah, you're going to cavitate, you're going to have issues Like. Cold is a little bit different. You know, hot, if it's very thin material, the machine is going to try Frost. Closed cell it's going to read it differently in the sensors, but with cold it's hard to get around it. Open cell, of course, is a little easier. You can recirculate, you can mix, you can slowly bring it up. If it's, it's definitely more difficult. Once again, we always talk about preconditioning. That's again where we try and save our butts. Here is, you know, the preconditioning. Like you said, if everything goes sideways, what do you do exactly? It's going to take long. You have to heat it up properly barrel blankets, barrel blazers, things like that that you're going to have to use to get it up, um, to temperature that you need it at like the clarification.
Dan:I paused for a little too long oops, oops. But yeah, I mean, sometimes there's no, there's no corner to cut right, there's the the long way at that point to get it, to get to it well and I think that's why I wanted to bring that point up and talk about that is, if you get to that point, no matter what layer of this industry you are, sometimes you have to stop. Yeah, and it's hard to be the guy that stopped. It is.
Aaron:But there's. That's why you have a group of guys. You know Aaron myself, you know we're the ones you call it like man. It just it's not happening like clothes selling saying you know the heat a lot of guys right now. There's a stopping point. There's a point when that barrel gets so hot, you're done, you can't do anything about it. It's a chemical reaction. No matter how much you wish it not to be, it's going to happen and you've got to stop.
Jeremiah:With us at the previous location when we moved in there. I guess it was one of the coldest winters that Arizona had in quite some time, like several days below freezing. I have a duty, I have an obligation to protect our customers. I have an obligation to make sure that when product leaves our shop that it's at those correct temperatures, right. So that was me getting to the shop at four o'clock in the morning making sure we've got those heaters turned on, making sure that you know the temps didn't get below 50 degrees, or if they got close, we've got to bring those back up to temperature.
Jeremiah:So again, a lot of that falls back onto the contractor, that business owner, to check it at night before you go to bed. You know, check it as soon as you get up and you know if you've got two hours to get to the job site, getting those indirect heaters on there for for an hour before you get there. Little steps will save you a ton of time, but it's the time you spend in the preventative. Like you said, jeremiah, on the back end it makes up for it, instead of fighting your machine, fighting your phone, fighting your equipment all day long notice how everyone keeps saying indirect heaters too, guys, I don't like getting on a rig and seeing a tube heater pointed at a drum Because you know you got in, it was 45 degrees.
Aaron:You know, once again, like Dan said numerous times, you know you're going to try and fix the situation as quick as you can, but there are certain fixes that are going to make your situation worse down the road. And you know, blazing a heater on the side of the drum because you know you slept in a little bit long or you're trying to get it done a little faster, once again, that's going to create more issues down the road.
Jeremiah:You're only heating up the area that that that heater is pointing, or?
Aaron:the paint or there's exactly once again, you can. There's a, there's a proper way to get yourself to the goal, right guys? And there's corners that, once again, like aaron said, you shouldn't cut, that are going to create more problems, and that's why we keep saying these little things like indirect heat. There's these little little things we can teach you and you can let you know. You do that, get the job done correctly. And there's these little things and other things that some guys do that will get you not to that goal.
Jeremiah:Right Back to the tools, though. I mean making sure that okay, yeah, you know barrel warmers, uh, drum blankets. They're not cheap You're looking at $800 to $1,000, but what's that worth to you? On your time in the mornings? One of the things that I've always liked when I see on a rig is the ceiling mounted heaters. They're not going to use them all the time. They rattle around, they make a little bit of noise, but at the end of the day, when you get home and you know what the temperatures are supposed to be overnight and all you're doing is running an extension cord out from the garage to make sure that your product stays sprayable the next day, well, those are days that you're out there spraying that your competitors aren't, so that you can keep moving.
Jeremiah:So those, those investments will. At the time they seem like a lot to bite off. They're worth it and they help you do things the right way and again going back to that end result, which is the customer being happy with the product that you just put in their walls or that you just put in their roof line subfloor, wherever. Having those having done it correctly goes a long way, and the benefits that you'll get out of it are more than that, that 800 bucks that you just spent well, and show a piece rate sprayer a way to spray an extra hour a day, sure that guy will be all over it.
Dan:Show an owner how you know an extra quarter set a day gets sprayed. Sure everybody can put a number on that very fast. And if it's, you know, a 50 space heater that gets you done with an extension cord. That's what it takes, sure, but yeah, any day you show me how I can spray a tenth of a set more, a quarter of a set more, absolutely without extra effort.
Jeremiah:It's worth every penny we're jeopardizing your quality, and you know you spent that 15 or 20 minutes or hour, whatever it is, to make sure that you you are processing your material correctly. Like you said, there's that quarter set, there's that extra hour spraying for your sprayer Down the line. It's a benefit to everyone. In addition, look at it from the homeowner standpoint. You guys have all had to make that call hey, I've got to push your job a day, I've got to push your job a week back. Or hey, the weather is doing, is that doing this?
Dan:well, yeah, it could be the weather, but it's also, are you conditioning your stuff properly where you can get that job done in time, exactly? All right, uh, call to action. What guys are going to do out here? We're talking about all this stuff. Check your rig for some tools.
Jeremiah:Ask for a few tools if you don't have them, ask, and if you don't know which tools to have, call us, call, yeah, I have a list I give out to guys.
Aaron:I'm sure Aaron has a list of tools that you minimally need to be on your rig to start off and you know we're happy to hand that stuff out. You know, ask a friend, ask a. You know a coworker Like most people know, like hey, get this stuff and shameless, plug here.
Dan:hit us up on the old Spray Foam Mafia Facebook page and just say, hey, what are you using?
Jeremiah:I'll snap a picture of what I have in my rigs. Well, and on your rig on the contractor side, have an inventory sheet right. Make sure that your guys are checking that off every day. Do we have our infrared thermometer? Do we have our drum barrel heaters? Do we have our depth gauges? Do we have organize?
Aaron:your stupid toolbox, so you know where it is job site calling your boss like hey man, no, every morning before you leave, you should have everything. This is there, this is there.
Jeremiah:This is there, and you should have everything on that rig you need. This is there. This is there. This is there. On our side, when a product leaves, it doesn't matter if it's a pin, vice or a set of foam all that goes back into our inventory system so that we can track it For you guys, all right. Well, there was a pipe wrench on here yesterday. You signed off on it. Where the hell is my pipe wrench? So the time you save getting out there to it and knowing what you're supposed to have again, that's priceless for you guys.
Dan:And if that tool breaks, say something so we can replace it. Don't just go. Oh well, ignore it and hope it reappears, I don't know. Two weeks ago we broke the handle off of that.
Jeremiah:We're done. Aaron, we're an hour and a half away. Can you run us up a foam scraper?
Dan:Yeah, exactly yeah. So yeah, jeremiah, what do you have to add on all this stuff?
Aaron:Well, I mean, like I said, you know we were talking about this, the SDS guys and realized too that the SDS is a requirement to be on your rig. It's not a recommendation from Aaron or myself, it is a requirement, like you said, if OSHA unfortunately comes on your job site and checks, there's not just a way of the finger, there's a fine to not have that on your rig. So it is required by law to have it on there. It's not only for your safety and health, of course, but it's also because, once again, worst case scenario, someone comes to the job.
Aaron:Yeah, cya guys, I say it all the time. It's there for a reason. Please have it Once again. It's. Epc has an app. There's apps everywhere. Every manufacturer has an app on your phone. It's very readily available nowadays.
Jeremiah:There's no reason not to know what you're working with and how to be safe around it. They're on our website, easy to find as well. Um, like I said just, you're protecting your investment, and this is a simple way to do it by just having the bare minimum.
Aaron:Right, the goal is always, guys to wake up, come to work, go home in the same condition you came to work in and that's you know. Stay safe and you know, take these recommendations for what they are, guys, yeah.
Dan:Very good, aaron, sure appreciate your time. Yeah, glad you came out and talked to us about this a little bit.
Jeremiah:It was a long drive.
Dan:It was a long drive, yeah.
Jeremiah:From your desk to this table over here. Last thing I'll say stop storing your chemical in direct sunlight, For the love of God, stop.
Dan:Well, I got this really nice tree that I can just back the trailer underneath it, and a good 12 hours of the day it's in the shade. There you go, yeah.
Jeremiah:Yeah, no, this was fun. I appreciate you guys inviting me to do this and you go yeah, yeah, no, this was. This was fun. I appreciate you guys inviting me to do this and, like I said, my only goal with this is I hope it's impactful and, like I said, exactly, you can listen to this on the way to the job site. You know, you, this is maybe, maybe things you already know. You've heard, um, but if there's just one little smidge that can help out, then it helps us all advance what we're trying to get done here.
Dan:And if you have any questions about anything we talked about today, get ahold of us. There should be links to all of our contact info. We'll throw Energy Fox's website up there. If you have questions about some of this, aaron will be glad to talk to you about it. Sure, absolutely Anytime. Jeremiah, me, everybody. Talk to your buddies, talk to your competitors, talk to the guys you know. Look at the phone number on his rig running down the street. Ask him about what's up, because most all of us will answer our phone for everybody. If you don't ask the question, we can't answer it exactly. That's right, so cool, very good again. Like and share us on facebook spray foam mafia. We'll have this up. Please subscribe to anything on whatever your favorite podcast channels are, and we will pick up again with a new topic next week and a new guest star.
